Crisis, help urgently needed.

[Aeolus]

Another uninsured one. By the sound of it
No ! I do not apologise & i do not retract my statement
I suppose you agree with driving an uninsured car
Is there any difference?
Yes he has lost his home & that is hard luck but the situation he finds himself was pretty predictable if you think about it ( not how it happened but the problems that would arise afterwards once it did)

Yet another dim witted fool. Do you want the same set of laws, rules, enforcement at sea as on land? Surely one of the delights of sailing is that it is unregulated and everyone takes responsibility for themselves. Sure, there's a risk that my boat might get damaged by someone without insurance (I have chosen to have my own insurance to cover that risk) but I do not want for me or anyone else to have to produce their insurance certificate every year whilst they queue to obtain their sailing licence which must be produced on demand by the marine police force.

So this individual has put his boat and potentially his financial security at risk by not insuring his boat - that is his choice and it is none of my business nor yours. I feel every sympathy for his plight and I wish him well. The idea that this is the time to start blaming him - well, I guess only a dim-witted fool would think it appropriate.

 

[[3889]]

I believe the fire service could be asked to pump her out but presumably would charge for that.

Not much help I'm afraid but when I left the Fire Service 10 years ago they charged £400 an hour for pumping out. Best of luck and sorry that you are further burdened by fools like Daydream Believer.

 

[TradewindSailor]

I expect that with a boat like his he probably took a crew when he moved it
So you would be quite happy if there was an accident & someone had to tell a widow with 2 kids that her husband had drowned & there was to be no compensation as the boat was un insured

You objectors to my post just do not get it do you!! How would the post have developed then? All in favour of the skipper--- i think not---- Throwing insults insults at me because you have not thought this through shows a total shortsightedness

Of course it is unfortunate but a lot of what happens afterwards is just a result of a lack of basic common sense & one finds it difficult to have any sympathy whatsoever.
People do not need an A level to realise such things.

I am absolutely disgusted by your attitude! You are a disgrace to the cruising fraternity that usually pull together in an occasion like this and offer help for free. You really do need to crawl back under that stone.

I am very glad to be cruising in an area where people actually care about others.

To the OP: As for costs of clean up etc. if the authorities are unreasonable have a word with a MARINE LAWYER. I believe that their are some significant limits to liability.

 

[bigwow]

You might try contacting Dave Murray here http://www.glaciere.co.uk/ he may be interested in a "training exercise"

 

[sighmoon]

I'm very sorry to hear it.

It's clutching at straws, I know, but is it possible that the boat is covered by some other insurance policy - i.e. household policy? Failing that, personal legal cover may be enough to counter sue the marina for their negligence causing the loss?

 

[pvb]

Failing that, personal legal cover may be enough to counter sue the marina for their negligence causing the loss?

Do you think Fleetwood Haven Marina is negligent? In what way?

 

[savageseadog]

Is there a photo (I don't mean a picture of a water surface) or a bit more info?

 

[Tam Lin]

Saw this post just after it was posted and felt very sorry for the guy. Caught up today and thought that I had wandered into the Lounge by mistake!

 

[sighmoon]

Do you think Fleetwood Haven Marina is negligent? In what way?

Sorry, I didn't really mean to imply anything, other than if he has a policy somewhere that will cover legal costs, his options may open up. That was my clumsily worded interpretation of this:

... has been holed by ironwork on the harbour wall at Fleetwood and sunk.

What sort of ironwork could foreseeably sink a boat, and was it supposed to be there? Or knowing it was there, was it the best place for the marina to put this boat?

But I've never been there, and I'm not a lawyer.

 

[tyce]

Surely if the marina gave you that berth and you were paying for it then the marina is totally to blame as the berth was not safe. If however they did not give you that berth then I hope the costs are not as expensive as I fear.

 

[Quidi Vidi]

I expect that with a boat like his he probably took a crew when he moved it
So you would be quite happy if there was an accident & someone had to tell a widow with 2 kids that her husband had drowned & there was to be no compensation as the boat was un insured

You objectors to my post just do not get it do you!! How would the post have developed then? All in favour of the skipper--- i think not---- Throwing insults insults at me because you have not thought this through shows a total shortsightedness

Of course it is unfortunate but a lot of what happens afterwards is just a result of a lack of basic common sense & one finds it difficult to have any sympathy whatsoever.
People do not need an A level to realise such things.

I think it's you who is insulting and being shortsighted. We have an anxious 73 year old father prepared to do a very dangerous dive to help his son and you want to kick him while he is down. Doesn't say much for you, does it? This was not the time or place for you to make your obnoxious remarks but it shows the type of man that you are! An overbearing, thoughtless, nasty bully who has done themselves no favours by posting such remarks on this forum.

 

[NOHOH]

But Lets get back to practicalities...

The first thing to establish is whether the "protruding ironwork" is still protruding through the hull....and therefore seriously in the way of applying any patch. If it is then the situation could be very much more complicated....

But... one step at a time...

Best Wishes and good luck with it.

 

[Daydream believer]

I think it's you who is insulting and being shortsighted. We have an anxious 73 year old father prepared to do a very dangerous dive to help his son and you want to kick him while he is down. Doesn't say much for you, does it? This was not the time or place for you to make your obnoxious remarks but it shows the type of man that you are! An overbearing, thoughtless, nasty bully who has done themselves no favours by posting such remarks on this forum.

Would the 73 year old be putting himself at risk if insurance co was stumping up the cost of a salvage vessel
See what i am getting at? If he ends up injured ( & i sincerely hope he is not) & totally stressed then whose fault was it?
The whole thing develops out of control. From the idea of buying the vessel to running it then thinking - well bit short of cash let's forego insurance. At first it all sounds OK . No.1 son having a go at something in life & everyone sympathises.
But unfortunately rash behaviour often ends up in tears. Buti do accept that if we did not try then we would get nowhere.
Trouble is that these incidents gets to the authorities notice.
Next thing someone decides we need regulation. Then we all suffer

Oh & notice how one tends to try to put his case with out lobbing insults at someone with whom i do not agree
You should try it some time

 

[2copplane]

Last weekend was a 10metre spring and the top of the superstructure was still visible. This coming weekend is a 7.5metre neap, So you may have 3 metres more trawler visible which may mean the hole is very close to the surface.

All the best.

 

[onesea]

Oh & notice how one tends to try to put his case with out lobbing insults at someone with whom i do not agree
You should try it some time

You do not need to lob insults to be aragant, rude, ignorant showing little respect for others. My X wife can prove that every time...

 

[maby]

Would the 73 year old be putting himself at risk if insurance co was stumping up the cost of a salvage vessel
See what i am getting at? If he ends up injured ( & i sincerely hope he is not) & totally stressed then whose fault was it?
The whole thing develops out of control. From the idea of buying the vessel to running it then thinking - well bit short of cash let's forego insurance. At first it all sounds OK . No.1 son having a go at something in life & everyone sympathises.
But unfortunately rash behaviour often ends up in tears. Buti do accept that if we did not try then we would get nowhere.
Trouble is that these incidents gets to the authorities notice.
Next thing someone decides we need regulation. Then we all suffer

Oh & notice how one tends to try to put his case with out lobbing insults at someone with whom i do not agree
You should try it some time

Lets disconnect the discussions of insurance from this thread where it is getting too emotive. Start a new thread advocating making third party insurance mandatory and you will have my full support - boats are expensive things and it horrifies me to think of others sailing close to my boat uninsured.

 

[Tintin]

Would the 73 year old be putting himself at risk if insurance co was stumping up the cost ...yada yada yada

Keep digging, that hole is getting deeper

 

[fisherman]

Superstructure showing means about twenty feet depth. Can the water level can be lowered sufficiently to patch and pump out, are there other vessels which would have to take the ground, yachts alongside pontoons and bigger vessels. All would have to be happy in maybe ten feet of water to get her deck clear. Flotation bags or a crane require strops under the hull, maybe possible for a diver but not nice work especially in soft mud. If she's upright there may be access to the keel to get strops through, but is she stable? There won't be enough water for bags to work, so it has to be a crane. The strops would need rigging first then a day with a crane slowly lifting/pumping/draining until she's up enough to be dealt with at leisure. Big expensive crane, so the best bet would be lowering the water level in the dock.

 

[Norman_E]

All the comment about insurance is missing an important fact. This is a houseboat that has gone nowhere since it arrived in Fleetwood. It was not going to sea, it was not going to collide with anyone else's boat, it was just sitting in one place minding its own business. It is fairly easy to see why the owners did not see a need to insure it, at least until they were ready to move it. I wonder how many houseboats are insured against seagoing risks?

 

[clyst]

This is turning into a full scale salvage operation now ....... And I guess very very expensive. If there is no insurance who foots the bill ? You can bet your bottom dollar that the harbour will fearfully deny all responsibility and employ lawyers to defend them . Whether you consider my post to be offensive or not it appears that the boat owner is heading for financial disaster but best of luck to him .

I was involved saving a sunken ex trawler which was holed along side but fortunately it was in a cornish tidal harbour and a 6mm ply patch saw her refloated on the next tide .