Cowes Yacht / Ferry crash

[chrishscorp]

Obviously it's all speculation at this time, but presumably up until the ferry went aground everyone thought it was situation normal...driving passengers were already back in their cars ready to disembark according to witness reports.

I'm just gobsmacked that a ferry such as that with "thrust anywhere" Voith Schnieder units, plus with GPS available in something as simple as an iPhone, can literally miss a port entrance. I get that the radar might be quite ineffective with lots of clutter at very short range, I get that the vis was basically zero, but barring a mechanical/steering/propulsion failure how can this possibly happen?

And I also get that if the viz was literally 5 metres, surely you loiter outside the entrance sounding your foghorn until it's safe to approach?

I thought the same, reference the passengers back in cars on the car deck whilst vessel still under way in visibility of 5 Metres !!, it doesnt sound the most sensible idea. There are commercial freighters that also use the Medina as well as the likes of us yachties, not sure if they have movements on a Weekend or their frequency

 

[{151760}]

I thought the same, reference the passengers back in cars on the car deck whilst vessel still under way in visibility of 5 Metres !!, it doesnt sound the most sensible idea. There are commercial freighters that also use the Medina as well as the likes of us yachties, not sure if they have movements on a Weekend or their frequency

If the visibility was as little as 5 metres, then they wouldn't have been able to see the port-hand buoys from the bridge, certainly, but perhaps not from the car deck either, assuming they had lookouts there. If they'd attempted to get from Southampton in that visibility by GPS lat/long and dead reckoning, it's no wonder they missed. That would be irresponsible, so I assume they have chartplotter capability, with redundancy. This would give them a position with accuracy of 10m or less. If the AIS track is correct, they turned to port much earlier than that; something like a cable.
I hypothesise therefore, that either the chartplotter(s) were defective in some way, or they weren't being monitored sufficiently. The word 'disorientation' comes to mind.
But, of course, this is just speculation. I hope the results of Red Funnel's inquiry are made public. They won't want to publicise any deficiencies in their equipment or procedures, of course.

 

[DJE]

There were initial reports of shouts of help. I suspect the Captain would have been reluctant to engage thrusters if there was a chance people may be in the water close by.....she may then have drifted into the mud. Did we ever find out for sure whether the yacht that sank was underway or moored?

Anchors?

 

[Pete7]

If the visibility was as little as 5 metres, .

I took the dog for a walk around Island Harbour Marina about 8am and would have said 50m of vis and zero wind. Blue sky could be seen above the fog so we delayed our start until 10am when the fog had burnt off in the sunshine. Got as far as the chain ferry about 1040 am before the harbour master stopped us and asked us to hold position whilst listening ch 69. The tug towed the ferry into the berth about 11am after which the harbour master opened the harbour again for traffic.

Pete

 

[sailorman]

The master and mate of a car ferry that struck yachts and ran aground off the Isle of Wight have been suspended.

The Red Falcon ran aground in fog off East Cowes on Sunday morning, weeks after another vessel operated by Red Funnel tore yachts from their moorings.

Red Funnel said the suspensions were "standard industry practise" and it was changing its procedures on operating in restricted visibility.

The owner of a yacht which sank said he has been contacted by the ferry firm.

Nigel Minchin told BBC News "it was obviously a big embarrassment for them" after being called by Red Funnel's CEO Fran Collins on Sunday evening.

 

[prv]

If they'd attempted to get from Southampton in that visibility by GPS lat/long and dead reckoning, it's no wonder they missed. That would be irresponsible, so I assume they have chartplotter capability, with redundancy. This would give them a position with accuracy of 10m or less.

I would expect radar to be the primary tool, at least officially, rather than GPS. Obviously both combined is best.

Pete

 

[prv]

As it's only fortuitous that nobody was hospitalised or killed, isn't it in the public interest that reasons for a recurrent failure be publicised?

Agree.

We should probably keep an eye on https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...t-investigation-branch-current-investigations over the next few days.

Pete

 

[mlines]

I would expect radar to be the primary tool, at least officially, rather than GPS. Obviously both combined is best.

Pete

With Radar, in that close quarter situation, anything of use would be either in the radar shadow of the superstructure or in the noise clutter of the immediate vicinity of the aerial. The minimum range specification in Solas is 40 metres

 

[dancrane]

Thanks Pete, I deleted that post after thinking that sailorman's post had answered my question sooner than I'd asked it.

 

[Hermit]

Of course, if something has to change then, for an entirely detached point of view, what brings in more money to the Island - a handful of yacht moorings or the ferry? Perhaps (and I genuinely don't know) the answer would be to widen the channel to allow easier access for the ferries?

{ducks head below the parapet}

 

[VicS]

Of course, if something has to change then, for an entirely detached point of view, what brings in more money to the Island - a handful of yacht moorings or the ferry? Perhaps (and I genuinely don't know) the answer would be to widen the channel to allow easier access for the ferries?

{ducks head below the parapet}

Obviously remove all small craft moorings from the areas adjacent to the path of the ferries ( IIRC a new ferry terminal is in the pipeline) and locate them in marinas ( a new marina is on the cards too I believe ) or up the river above the floating bridge.

Closing the harbour entrance while ferries are transitting the area is perhaps something else to consider.

While you are at it ban cyclists from central London ( and other major cities) to eliminate cyclists deaths

 

[Seajet]

I don't think the channel could be widened by much - and it's who those moorings belong to which may be highly relevant !

This is Red Funnels' 3rd prang in a few weeks, including a collision off Calshot.

The ferries haven't changed, fog hasn't changed, it can't all be down to equipment failures - which should be allowed for anyway - so I'd suspect operating procedures ( very likely with an accountant on the end ).

 

[VicS]

I don't think the channel could be widened by much - and it's who those moorings belong to which may be highly relevant !

This is Red Funnels' 3rd prang in a few weeks, including a collision off Calshot.

The ferries haven't changed, fog hasn't changed, it can't all be down to equipment failures - which should be allowed for anyway - so I'd suspect operating procedures ( very likely with an accountant on the end ).

ban accountants as well !

 

[Seajet]

ban accountants as well !

Banning is too good for them in my experience, I was thinking more like a few passes with an A-10

 

[Pete7]

Of course, if something has to change then, for an entirely detached point of view, what brings in more money to the Island - a handful of yacht moorings or the ferry? Perhaps (and I genuinely don't know) the answer would be to widen the channel to allow easier access for the ferries?

In that case if there are no moorings do you need the new breakwater?

 

[dancrane]

I wonder what the procedure was in fog, fifty years ago?

 

[Seajet]

The breakwater does seem to have some unforeseen effects, but it doesn't just shelter the moorings - the marinas to the west - ie the home of trendy racing types etc - were pretty exposed and rolly, I haven't been in those for years but imagine a lot more comfortable now.

Anyway despite Red Funnel's somewhat direct methods I 'd be very surprised if those moorings went; and anyway they've been fine for decades / a century or two, up until the last few weeks...

 

[prv]

With Radar, in that close quarter situation, anything of use would be either in the radar shadow of the superstructure or in the noise clutter of the immediate vicinity of the aerial. The minimum range specification in Solas is 40 metres

The Medina estuary is about 500m wide at that point according to a quick measurement on Google Maps satellite view. To have the building frontages of West Cowes (most likely radar target on that side) within a 40m shadow, she'd have had to be so close inshore that collision with the Red Jet terminal or Yacht Haven pontoons would have been imminent anyway.

Pete

 

[Dick Atcherley]

Has anyone seen an AIS track showing the routing, that can be reproduced here?

 

[alant]

I thought the same, reference the passengers back in cars on the car deck whilst vessel still under way in visibility of 5 Metres !!, it doesnt sound the most sensible idea. There are commercial freighters that also use the Medina as well as the likes of us yachties, not sure if they have movements on a Weekend or their frequency

,
They also have to sound one long very loud blast as they approach the 'corner' near the chain ferry, which can be heard at the entrance.