Cowes Yacht / Ferry crash
- Thread starter ctva
- Start date
grumpy_o_g
Well-known member
BKYC Contessa 26's used to toddle off round the Baltic for a week or two with 5 Sqaddies/Airmen onboard. You could get the whole platoon onto a 32.
grumpy_o_g
Well-known member
Having sailed past the Herald of Free Enterprise a few times whilst she was like this and having been booked on the crossing immediately after the fatal one
I'm with Seajet on this one I'm afraid. Bloody stupid name for a boat too.
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ProDave
Well-known member
Having sailed past the Herald of Free Enterprise a few times whilst she was like this and having been booked on the crossing immediately after the fatal one
I'm with Seajet on this one I'm afraid. Bloody stupid name for a boat too.
The cause of that was setting sail with the bow doors open. Now the doors have to be shut before the ferry leaves. But still no requirement to have the car deck vacated fully before the ship moves.
Seajet
...
grumpy og,
ta, like most tragedies I remember where I was when the Herald of Free Enterprise happened - I was in a hotel in Fort William with chums during downtime when a spectacularly unofficial repair was being carried out on our prototype Harrier GR5 involving tin snips and a soldering iron so we could continue the trial rather than have it go back on a lorry...
I have no problem with Pro Dave or PRV Pete, like yourself the better examples of life on YBW.
I do think having people in vehicles any time a ferry is under way is going to lead to a diabolical accident sometime.
ta, like most tragedies I remember where I was when the Herald of Free Enterprise happened - I was in a hotel in Fort William with chums during downtime when a spectacularly unofficial repair was being carried out on our prototype Harrier GR5 involving tin snips and a soldering iron so we could continue the trial rather than have it go back on a lorry...
I have no problem with Pro Dave or PRV Pete, like yourself the better examples of life on YBW.
I do think having people in vehicles any time a ferry is under way is going to lead to a diabolical accident sometime.
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ProDave
Well-known member
Some of the smaller open ferries on short crossings, it is normal to stay in your car the entire crossing.
Triassic
Well-known member
It seems to me that the "safer" we try and make our world the less risk we are prepared to accept. Perhaps we should ban life, it is after all a sexually transmitted condition with a 100% fatality rate.......
To get back on topic I wonder how those that are suggesting the ferries shouldn't run in fog would feel if we stopped all traffic on our roads in such conditions. After all, it has been shown time and time again that people can't be trusted to drive safely in fog.....
Something clearly went wrong at Cowes but lets keep this in perspective. Humans make mistakes, shit happens, lets learn from it but remember that life goes on and a world without risk would be a pretty frustrating place to be....
To get back on topic I wonder how those that are suggesting the ferries shouldn't run in fog would feel if we stopped all traffic on our roads in such conditions. After all, it has been shown time and time again that people can't be trusted to drive safely in fog.....
Something clearly went wrong at Cowes but lets keep this in perspective. Humans make mistakes, shit happens, lets learn from it but remember that life goes on and a world without risk would be a pretty frustrating place to be....
alant
Active member
Having sailed past the Herald of Free Enterprise a few times whilst she was like this and having been booked on the crossing immediately after the fatal one
I'm with Seajet on this one I'm afraid. Bloody stupid name for a boat too.
I sailed into Zeebrugge on the first anniversary of that tragic event & remember it as a forbidding place to be in those circumstances.
LadyInBed
Well-known member
ie: Poole - Sandbanks
Thought you can get out of your car if you want.
Giblets
Well-known member
And not to mention the well known & publicised Floating Bridge (when it's running!).
Uricanejack
Well-known member
Many Many years ago. Waiting in line for the Corran ferry was a family tradition. We always used to hope the "Big" Ferry was running. Not Just the Little Ferry. Better yet both Ferries. Summer only.
The Big ferry carried 9 cars. The Little Ferry 6.
Until someone pointed out to somebody important. The slightly bigger 9 car ferry was actually only a 6 car ferry. There is a requirement you have to be able to get out your car. Common sense I suppose. Not to many local people appreciated the change.
Some what controversial topic where I live. On an Island in BC West Coast Canada. We have been happily traveling back and forth on the car deck when busy we are much more comfortable sitting in our car. For me 25 years now. BC Ferries have been around almost 60 years.
Meanwhile on the East Coast. Particularly after the fire on the Joseph and Clara Smallwood. Passengers are not allowed on enclosed Car Decks when ferry is underway. TSB recommended nobody should be on car deck of an enclosed ferry.
Turns out its against the Law. Specifically the Canadian Tackle and Fumigation Regulations. Which obviously nobody had ever actually read. After the fire The Ferry companies in Eastern Canada were told or recommended to read the regulations and comply with them.
Last year Transport Canada after about 10 years worth of complaints from Newfies about BC allowing people to stay in their car. Transport Canada showed up in BC and with a copy of the Tackle and Fumigation Regulations. Asked WTF.
Now we have to get out of our cars too. Again probably common sense. Still very annoying. Applies only to enclosed car decks.
The Upper deck is open you can stay in your car, lower Deck enclosed you have to get out your car and go upstairs.
Apparently these tackle and fumigation regulations have been around for decades. None of the Ferries have tackle and I've never heard of a Ferry being fumigated. So nobody in BC ever read them. Till last year.
The Big ferry carried 9 cars. The Little Ferry 6.
Until someone pointed out to somebody important. The slightly bigger 9 car ferry was actually only a 6 car ferry. There is a requirement you have to be able to get out your car. Common sense I suppose. Not to many local people appreciated the change.
Some what controversial topic where I live. On an Island in BC West Coast Canada. We have been happily traveling back and forth on the car deck when busy we are much more comfortable sitting in our car. For me 25 years now. BC Ferries have been around almost 60 years.
Meanwhile on the East Coast. Particularly after the fire on the Joseph and Clara Smallwood. Passengers are not allowed on enclosed Car Decks when ferry is underway. TSB recommended nobody should be on car deck of an enclosed ferry.
Turns out its against the Law. Specifically the Canadian Tackle and Fumigation Regulations. Which obviously nobody had ever actually read. After the fire The Ferry companies in Eastern Canada were told or recommended to read the regulations and comply with them.
Last year Transport Canada after about 10 years worth of complaints from Newfies about BC allowing people to stay in their car. Transport Canada showed up in BC and with a copy of the Tackle and Fumigation Regulations. Asked WTF.
Now we have to get out of our cars too. Again probably common sense. Still very annoying. Applies only to enclosed car decks.
The Upper deck is open you can stay in your car, lower Deck enclosed you have to get out your car and go upstairs.
Apparently these tackle and fumigation regulations have been around for decades. None of the Ferries have tackle and I've never heard of a Ferry being fumigated. So nobody in BC ever read them. Till last year.
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prv
Well-known member
Apparently these tackle and fumigation regulations have been around for decades. None of the Ferries have tackle and I've never heard of a Ferry being fumigated. So nobody in BC ever read them. Till last year.
What sort of "tackle" are they referring to in this context?
The Red Funnel car decks aren't fully enclosed; they run through the superstructure but the ends are open. I don't think they allow people to stay in their cars for the crossing, but nor do they necessarily wait for every last person to finish gathering up their possessions and leave the deck before they cast off.
Pete
Seajet
...
The lower ' car ferry ' at Dartmouth nearer the entrance consists basically of a raft with a few cars on it, and a small tug which is held by the bow and pivots around which way to drive the thing; it's a lovely example of seamanship, but - although I don't suffer claustrophobia or anything like that - I was distinctly uneasy going across in a near gale.
If a disaster happened I and my ex could probably have got out - I'd wound the windows down already as a precaution, no sunroof escape hatch on modern cars and electric windows probably don't like being underwater - but most punters would be stuffed - much better to be out of the vehicle.
As for chain ferries being safer, I'm sure they generally are ( unless on the new Cowes one trying to make a job interview or angry missus ) - but it would only take a slight interface with a small ship - as they get at Cowes - to make being stuck mid stream a very bad idea.
If a disaster happened I and my ex could probably have got out - I'd wound the windows down already as a precaution, no sunroof escape hatch on modern cars and electric windows probably don't like being underwater - but most punters would be stuffed - much better to be out of the vehicle.
As for chain ferries being safer, I'm sure they generally are ( unless on the new Cowes one trying to make a job interview or angry missus ) - but it would only take a slight interface with a small ship - as they get at Cowes - to make being stuck mid stream a very bad idea.
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dancrane
Well-known member
Oh, I really want to hear that Red Funnel's troubles are somehow the floating bridge's fault! :biggrin-new:
Seajet
...
They are slightly connected Dan, as the ' new ' shingle breakwater has caused no end of side effects; whoever they got in as a Naval Architect or whatever didn't have a sufficient fluid dynamics model - or in other words, clue !
Still it's hard to see what else they could have done, Cowes was very open to any wind with a bit of north in it.
Unless it's caused some sort of Bermuda Triangle effect it still doesn't explain ferries veering wildly off course; if lorries did this on roads I'm pretty sure it would be frowned on.
Still it's hard to see what else they could have done, Cowes was very open to any wind with a bit of north in it.
Unless it's caused some sort of Bermuda Triangle effect it still doesn't explain ferries veering wildly off course; if lorries did this on roads I'm pretty sure it would be frowned on.
Uricanejack
Well-known member
I am not sure. The regulations are about loading cargoes, Securing cargoe, So I think the tackle refers to cranes, derricks, strops lashings. Dates back to loading and securing cargoes on tramp cargo ship. still relevant to containers.
Apparently an enclosed car deck is a cargo deck. The North Coast Ferries secure drop trailers with chains. I would guess they are tackle. There are picture of some of the old ferries to the island loading Modle T by Derick in local restaurant. The regulations also refer to decks containing packaged goods. Packaged goods are any form of DG.
I can vaguely remember the last of the cars being loaded by Dereck on the Malaig Armadale run before upgrading to Roll On Roll Off.
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