courtesy flag for Scotland and Ireland

[theforeman]

It's only distilled there. Most of the maturing, and the bottling, happens in bonded warehouses in Glasgow. Anyway, everybody knows you buy your whisky at Bowmore Co-Op.

i think the maturing is done at the still, still.

 

[Danny Jo]

The following protocol for Scottish waters (but see warning below) is based on observation over the last four years:

Red ensign on stern flagstaff, plus saltire at starboard crosstree - an Englishman who is a tad too eager to please.

Defaced blue ensign on stern flagstaff, plus saltire at starboard crosstree - an Englishman who just doesn't get it.

Foreign national flag, plus saltire at starboard crosstree - a non-Brit who values his boat.

Saltire alone, worn at starboard crosstree - a Scot

Saltire alone, worn at port crosstree - a Scot who doesn't know port from starboard

Saltire alone, large, worn at stern flagstaff - a Scottish nationalist

Welsh dragon on stern flagstaff, plus saltire at starboard crosstree - a Welsh nationalist

Warning
Please note: "Scottish waters" do not include the waters within 20 miles of Fair Isle and the Shetlands.

Strictly speaking, you do need an Irish courtesy flag in Irish waters, but don't lose sleep over it - the Irish are much more laid back about it than the Scots.

What, you mean you dont get it cheaper 'at the factory'?!

No, that's one thing you can be sure of - you don't get it cheaper at the distillery. You get a complementary tot. But they have to pay duty on every drop they make, including what they give away as freebies, and it stands to reason that they have to recover the outlay. (The folks on Islay reckon the island gets back only a tiny fraction of what is paid in duty on their produce; to add insult to injury, I believe the government is now demanding that distilleries pay to extract the water they have been using for centuries.)

 

[WindyOut]

Here's an interesting fact ...

In 1921, the whole of Ireland was made a Free State, and the 6 northern counties were given an option to cede back as full members of the UK. Which they duly did almost immediately (leading to partition as we know it now), but the cession terms didn't say anything about the territorial waters around Northern Ireland. So ... technically they now belong to the Republic of Ireland (hence all buoyage and lights are provided and maintained by the Republic).

So, entering Bangor marina, or anywhere else along the NI coast, one is technically in ROI territorial waters.

Interestingly, my attention was drawn to this little-known fact by an Ulster Unionist. I guess it's a reasonable quid-pro-quo for the Republic having RNLI lifeboats!


Hiding under the table with a colander on my head,
WindyOut

 

[Searush]

Here's an interesting fact ...

In 1921, the whole of Ireland was made a Free State, and the 6 northern counties were given an option to cede back as full members of the UK. Which they duly did almost immediately (leading to partition as we know it now), but the cession terms didn't say anything about the territorial waters around Northern Ireland. So ... technically they now belong to the Republic of Ireland (hence all buoyage and lights are provided and maintained by the Republic).

So, entering Bangor marina, or anywhere else along the NI coast, one is technically in ROI territorial waters.

Interestingly, my attention was drawn to this little-known fact by an Ulster Unionist. I guess it's a reasonable quid-pro-quo for the Republic having RNLI lifeboats!


Hiding under the table with a colander on my head,
WindyOut

Now there's interesting. And it may explain some of the issues with e-borders in those waters

 

[Ubergeekian]

So, entering Bangor marina, or anywhere else along the NI coast, one is technically in ROI territorial waters.

And so, presumably, subject to their lifejacket rules. Though I wonder who would check?

 

[Fascadale]

...................the independence that we are very happy to give them.

I don't think Scotland's independence is yours to give, but then you thinking that it is within your gift is part the problem.

As for the OP, when I have sailed in Wales I have been happy to fly a Welsh flag as a courtesy to my hosts, similarly in Ireland. Were I to sail to England I would happily fly a St Georges flag as a courtesy.

Of course the OP should fly s Saltire when visiting Scotland and should he think of sailing to Orkney or Shetland he may well wish to acknowledge their identities

 

[RestlessL]

I have not yet had the opportunity to sail Restless into Scottish waters, but would consider it appropriate to fly the Saltire if I did.

I do, however, keep both a Saltire (correct colour) and Y Ddraig Goch on board. When I have guests who consider themselves to be Welsh of Scot I invite them to fly their flag from the port spreader, and they have always been pleased to do so. Fortunately I have not yet hosted both together, so the issue of priority has not arisen.

John

 

[Quandary]

It's only distilled there. Most of the maturing, and the bottling, happens in bonded warehouses in Glasgow. Anyway, everybody knows you buy your whisky at Bowmore Co-Op.

Oh dear, I am disappointed, I thought you of them all would know the difference between island single malt and blended whisky.
But then I suppose you are nearly in England down there.

Galadriel, don't be put off, you can still buy your whisky in the Co. and drink it at anchor in Craighouse or Lahphroiag beside the steaming distillery outfall while sniffing the heavenly aroma drifting across the anchorage from the stills.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

Don't Fly Any Courtesy Flag in Scotland

Galadriel - I personally request that you don't fly any courtesy flag in Scotland, it's not required. It's now so common as to be blasé and can be considered mildly patronising due to its irrelevancy.

I assume you are a British Citizen, so there is no concept of being hosted as you are in your own Country anyway.

Most of the people I know are a mixed bag when it comes to opinions on independence and would not make any observation on you or your boat if you did or did not fly the Saltire as a courtesy flag.

The "touchy" ones are likely to be encountered because of your accent (if its English) than the courtesy flag and even then you probably will not come across those "A" holes.

Come up and enjoy the hospitality that I am sure you will receive. Buy the the Whisky from the distillery if only because you can. After all buying it from a Co-op is just so, well, you know, blasé!

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

Galadriel - I personally request that you don't fly any courtesy flag in Scotland, it's not required. It's now so common as to be blasé and can be considered mildly patronising due to its irrelevancy.

I'm going to follow this advice.

Anyway, since King James the First took over the throne of England am I not a subject of a Scots Monarchy in England which is a province of Scotland?

 

[webcraft]

.
A courtesy flag in Scotland is not a requirement but is a gesture that is appreciated by most and I am not sure what problem BOB has with it. It will annoy almost no-one and please quite a few, particularly if it is the correct colour of blue.

Flags in Ireland are another matter altogether, and many boats that cruise regularly in Irish waters fly no flag at all, considering this the safest option. ROI boats in particular usually remove the ROI ensign before entering a NI port. We fly an ROI courtesy flag when we are cruising off Eire or approaching a port in the Republic, but we are always very careful to remove it at the start of any passage that is going to take us into Northern Irish waters.

- W

 

[Ubergeekian]

Oh dear, I am disappointed, I thought you of them all would know the difference between island single malt and blended whisky.
But then I suppose you are nearly in England down there.

OK, the single malts are matured on the islands (mainly), but they are still bottled in Glasgow, or were last time I asked. Which is why the distilleries aren't cheap places to buy bottles.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

...... a gesture that is appreciated by most and I am not sure what problem BOB has with it....

No problem at all with people who fly a Saltire as a courtesy flag, in any shade of blue they wish. It is my own opinion that it is irrelevant to the level of appreciation that people will show to a visitor to Scotland as well as to the
cause célèbre of Scottish identity.

 

[Ubergeekian]

No problem at all with people who fly a Saltire as a courtesy flag, in any shade of blue they wish. It is my own opinion that it is irrelevant to the level of appreciation that people will show to a visitor to Scotland as well as to the
cause célèbre of Scottish identity.

It has the benefit, though, of showing who is a visitor, and allowing us to display our hospitality.

 

[Danny Jo]

Galadriel - I personally request that you don't fly any courtesy flag in Scotland, it's not required. It's now so common as to be blasé and can be considered mildly patronising due to its irrelevancy.

I assume you are a British Citizen, so there is no concept of being hosted as you are in your own Country anyway.

Most of the people I know are a mixed bag when it comes to opinions on independence and would not make any observation on you or your boat if you did or did not fly the Saltire as a courtesy flag.

The "touchy" ones are likely to be encountered because of your accent (if its English) than the courtesy flag and even then you probably will not come across those "A" holes.

Come up and enjoy the hospitality that I am sure you will receive. Buy the the Whisky from the distillery if only because you can. After all buying it from a Co-op is just so, well, you know, blasé!

This puts my view better than I could ever manage.

There are two things that bother me about Welsh and Scottish flags flown as "courtesy flags". The first is the implication that there is no formal flag etiquette, or if there is following it is optional - everyone is free to make up their own. The second relates to my own nationality. I have Scottish, Welsh and English ancestors (not to mention the French, Irish and no doubt Dutch, Danish, Norwegian, German, Mongolian and Indian ones) I've lived in Wales for almost as long as I've lived anywhere, I have a British passport and a UK-registered boat. OK, so it's clear enough that my national flag is the red ensign. But why is it appropriate to wear a courtesy flag while visiting one non-Welsh part of the UK (namely, Scotland) and not appropriate when visiting another (namely, England)?

 

[Ubergeekian]

But why is it appropriate to wear a courtesy flag while visiting one non-Welsh part of the UK (namely, Scotland) and not appropriate when visiting another (namely, England)?

I dunno. Why don't you fly a courtesy flag when you visit England?

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

It has the benefit, though, of showing who is a visitor, and allowing us to display our hospitality.

Ahhh, but rather than travel as a Tourist, I prefer to immerse myself in the local culture and travel incognito.

To that end I've carefully studied the films “Braveheart” and “Brigadoon” and when cruising Scottish waters I dress and act accordingly.

I doubt the simple, unsophisticated locals are even aware a stranger has been in their midst.

 

[snowleopard]

I personally request that you don't fly any courtesy flag in Scotland

If you find yourself in Cornish waters, I don't think anyone is going to object to you wearing a St Piran's courtesy flag.

One sometimes sees foreign vessels flying only the regional rather than national flag as a courtesy ensign. It's quite common among British boats visiting Brittany for example.

Then again there are the cases of British boats abroad flying regional or other unofficial ensigns. One occasionally hears of people getting into trouble with stroppy officials for example someone was fined in Portugal for flying an EU flag with a national flag in one corner.

Perhaps then it's best to stick to the official etiquette and maybe think twice about visiting countries where that is likely to bring you under attack. Is a boat the right place for a political statement?

 

[Quandary]

OK, the single malts are matured on the islands (mainly), but they are still bottled in Glasgow, or were last time I asked. Which is why the distilleries aren't cheap places to buy bottles.

The 30 year old and special edition stuff is usually bottled on site, I am not sure about the cheaper stuff. We are on the main road from Islay and the road tankers go by all the time as most malt goes for blending. I have'nt encountered a leaking tanker yet, but you live in hope but hardly worth keeping 1/2 dozen buckets in the car.
For visitors unaccustomed to the strong peat and iodine flavours of Laphroiag or Ardbeg can I recommend Jura, Springbank (Campbeltown) or perhaps Bruichladdich (Islay)
Jura 10yr. old is a bit like a Speyside malt and is usually heavily discounted. All from the Co.op or local grocers. Go on at least one distillery tour and get your sinuses cleared, the dram you get at the end will taste like nectar no matter where it is.

 

[saltwater_gypsy]

Don't be tempted to buy your malt in the distillery, though it always tastes good in there. Much cheaper in the Co-op.

No worries....the national drink of NI is Buckfast Fortified Wine..IMHO