Corinthian?

Re: Shakespeare censored by IPC

Hmmph. Stupidity. Idiots who don't understand the language. Will also restrict tool advice in PBO, I think -
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10"/250 mm Mill [--word removed--] file. 10"/250 mm Half round [--word removed--] file. 10"/250 mm Flat [--word removed--] file. 10"/250 mm Flat smooth file. 10"/250 mm Square [--word removed--] file. 10"/250 mm Round [--word removed--] file. 7"/175 mm Slim taper file. 10"/250 mm File cleaner (card). Complete set of 7 files and file cleaner (card) fits easily and securely into a rugged, compact pouch.

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Plastered

How smart a lash that speech doth give my conscience!
The harlot's cheek, beautied with plastering art,
Is not more ugly to the thing that helps it
Than is my deed to my most painted word:
O heavy burthen!
 
What was the question again?

Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles,
And by opposing end them?
 
Perhaps it should be called the "Maldon spirit" ??
Battle of Maldon 900AD ish (?)
Attacking Danes in the sea in boats.
Defending English on shore killing them too easily
English then let Danes get out of boats and come ashore for a fight.
English get thrashed.....

"it matters not whether you win or lose, but how you play the game.... "

/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
 
Thanks for all the erudite replies - I wasn't expecting references to Oxbridge footy or Shakespearean quotes!

There must be an episode in the history of Corinth which gives rise to the expression with its current meaning of sporting amateur. I was expecting something to do with St Paul perhaps but he was mainly concerned with the immorality of this major port/city/state in Ancient Greece with its cult of Aphrodite.

Alternatively I though it might have something to do with the canal carved through solid rock (triumph over adversity etc). According to the on-line encyclopaedia, Wikipedia.com, a canal was first attempted through the rocky isthmus in c. 600BC by Periander. He found it too difficult and built a stone trackway instead called the Diolkos over which cargoes and small boats could be dragged on wheeled carts. Nero tried again in AD67 with 6,000 slaves but the attempt was abandoned after his death. The 6km canal (21m wide, 8m max draught) was finally built from 1881-1893 by Hungarian architects who also worked on the Panama Canal. (The French contractor went bust and it was completed by the Greeks). This might have been about the same time as the Corinthian yacht and football clubs were founded - I understand there are various Corinthian Yacht Clubs here and abroad: did they spontaneously emerge at about this time?

If the canal isn't the answer either, perhaps there is another episode in Corinthian history which gives rise to the meaning of sporting amateur? Perhaps in the ancient wars against the Persians (who were a threat to Western interests) or Crusaders holding out against the Ottomans? Can anyone help provide the definitive answer?
 
Duffer,

Seven years later...I hope you are still interested in this thread.

For some reason I have become fairly obsessed with this topic and done a little additional research, though it is far from complete at this point.

According to this page on the history of the Corinthian Yacht Club (of San Francisco), the term refers to the Isthmian Games which was one of the sports festivals of the ancient Greek Panhellenic Games (along with the Olympic Games, the Pythian Games and the Nemean Games), held in the ancient city of Corinth. The CYC site states that the Royal Corinthian Yacht Club referenced these games in the naming of their club at its founding (as the Corinthian Yacht Club) in 1872. The club was formed with the "sole object of encouraging Amateur sailing" (see http://royalcorinthian.co.uk/librarydetail/4000048/club-formed-at-erith).

Note that the founding of the the RCYC pre-dates the founding the the Corinthian FC (referred to earlier in this thread) by 10 years, so I think we can reasonably assume that the origin of the term "Corinthian spirit" pre-dates the founding of the Corinthian FC, whether or not it actually originated with the RCYC.

But why Corinth? Throughout the 19th century England saw revivals of the ancient Olympics that would help inspire the creation of the IOC, so why not the "Olympic spirit"? This is the point which is still not clear to me. Was it simply all part of the contemporary enthusiasm for the supposed sporting values of ancient Greece? Did the association of the Isthmian Games with Poseidon, the God of the Sea, play into the RCYC's adoption of the name? For now, this remains a mystery to me.

Richard
 
ricardosoli said:
Duffer,

Seven years later...I hope you are still interested in this thread.

For some reason I have become fairly obsessed with this topic and done a little additional research, though it is far from complete at this point.

According to this page on the history of the Corinthian Yacht Club (of San Francisco), the term refers to the Isthmian Games which was one of the sports festivals of the ancient Greek Panhellenic Games (along with the Olympic Games, the Pythian Games and the Nemean Games), held in the ancient city of Corinth. The CYC site states that the Royal Corinthian Yacht Club referenced these games in the naming of their club at its founding (as the Corinthian Yacht Club) in 1872. The club was formed with the "sole object of encouraging Amateur sailing" (see http://royalcorinthian.co.uk/librarydetail/4000048/club-formed-at-erith).

Note that the founding of the the RCYC pre-dates the founding the the Corinthian FC (referred to earlier in this thread) by 10 years, so I think we can reasonably assume that the origin of the term "Corinthian spirit" pre-dates the founding of the Corinthian FC, whether or not it actually originated with the RCYC.

But why Corinth? Throughout the 19th century England saw revivals of the ancient Olympics that would help inspire the creation of the IOC, so why not the "Olympic spirit"? This is the point which is still not clear to me. Was it simply all part of the contemporary enthusiasm for the supposed sporting values of ancient Greece? Did the association of the Isthmian Games with Poseidon, the God of the Sea, play into the RCYC's adoption of the name? For now, this remains a mystery to me.

Richard
Click to expand...

There is a clue in the "History of the Peloponnisian War" by Thucydides, as posted above by several others, rich, powerful Corinth, contoller of the Isthmian Games, was viewed by the Spartans esp., but also the Thebans and Athens as a bunch of soft, effete( by Ancient Greek standards) 'chaps', playing at being hoplites, who often paid others to do their fighting for them.
Given the Spartan approach to phalanx work, which made them definitely "The Players", you can see how the Corinthians came to be admired by 19C 'cheps' , as 'The Gentlemen' role models??
 
Interesting facts about Corinthian Yacht clubs in the UK

Tay Corinthians are the furthest north, Bristol Corinthians are on fresh water, two Corinthian clubs in Cowes...............

And there are many Corinthian YCs in the US, some very, very smart
 
Brewer's Dictionary of Phrase and Fable tells us:

CORINTHIAN:
A licentious libertine. The lose living of Corinth was proverbial both in Greece and Rome.

In the Regency [i.e. 1811-1820] the term was applied to a group of sportsmen devoted to pugilism and horse racing. The sporting rake in Pierce Egan's Life in London (1821) was known as "Corinthian Tom". In Shakespreare's day a "Corinthian" was the "fast man" of the period. 'I am no proud Jack, like Falstaff: but a Corinthian, a lad of mettle, a good boy' (Henry IV, Pt.I,II,v). The term survives in the Royal Corinthian Yacht Club and the Corinthian Amateur Football Club.


The Shorter Oxford Dictionary gives among the definitions of Corinthian:
noun: A wealthy amateur of sport (from Late 19th Century)
adjective: Amateur (in sport) (from late 19 Century, and earlier (early 19th Century) in 'Corinthianism'
 
Last edited:
Another Corinthian Yacht Club was the Orwell Corinthian YC, I believe it was formed around 1888 by members of the Royal Harwich who wished to race their own boats rather than in crewed yachts, thus in the Corinthian tradition.

The club existed until 1928 when it was dissolved and it's archive and artefacts were donated to the RHYC. The OCYC commissioned a day racing yacht the OCOD in 1898, designed by HC Smith the is 18 foot yacht continued racing in the OCYC and later the RHYC until the Royal Harwich OD replaced it in 1937. Indeed one survivor continued to race with the RHOD's into the 1990s, not bad for a boat built in 1901!
 
The use of Corinthian to mean amateur has an interesting history. Today in amateur sport the definition of 'professional' is 'earning one's living at the sport or closely related activities. In the 19th century a professional was anyone who earned their living full stop as opposed to 'gentlemen' who were not defined by good behaviour but by the fact that they lived off unearned income.

Gentlemen v. players was therefore the idle rich v the oiks.
 
snowleopard said:
The use of Corinthian to mean amateur has an interesting history. Today in amateur sport the definition of 'professional' is 'earning one's living at the sport or closely related activities. In the 19th century a professional was anyone who earned their living full stop as opposed to 'gentlemen' who were not defined by good behaviour but by the fact that they lived off unearned income.

Gentlemen v. players was therefore the idle rich v the oiks.
Click to expand...

Ergo, Corinthian phalanx v Spartan phalanx, another ancient England v Oz Ashes series
 
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