Duffer
Well-Known Member
What is the origin of the expression "Corinthian spirit" - I know it means something like heroic amateur but why?
Corinthian?
- Thread starter Duffer
- Start date
stephenh
Well-Known Member
From the RCYC comes this
"....Corinthianism in yachting is that attribute which represents participation in sport as distinct from gain and which also involves the acquirement of nautical experience through the love of the sport rather than through necessity or the hope of gain......no paid hands are allowed...."
i.e. playing the game for the games sake....
Any use ????
"....Corinthianism in yachting is that attribute which represents participation in sport as distinct from gain and which also involves the acquirement of nautical experience through the love of the sport rather than through necessity or the hope of gain......no paid hands are allowed...."
i.e. playing the game for the games sake....
Any use ????
Twister_Ken
Well-Known Member
Nobody got paid in Corinth?
stephenh
Well-Known Member
If they did get paid anything it was in trimyrenes and quinkeremes - not drachmas !! ( spellings a bit out ..)
capt_courageous
Well-Known Member
I think they were sort of Graeco-Roman precedents of Break Back Mountaineers. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
absit_omen
Well-Known Member
I understand that the term originates from two (I think) Oxbridge football teams from the nineteenth century.
They did not much care if they won or lost, indeed, if the opposing side lost a player through injury, they would remove one of their own side from the pitch for the sake of fair play and gentlemanly conduct. They caled themselves 'The Corinthians' - hence the 'Corinthian Spirit'.
However, we now have something called 'progress' to replace that spirit.
They did not much care if they won or lost, indeed, if the opposing side lost a player through injury, they would remove one of their own side from the pitch for the sake of fair play and gentlemanly conduct. They caled themselves 'The Corinthians' - hence the 'Corinthian Spirit'.
However, we now have something called 'progress' to replace that spirit.
bilbobaggins
N/A
D'you mean, as in - <span style="color:blue">"Who cares who wins?" </span>
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Mirelle
N/A
I Googled it:
Here is the entry in Wordsmith.org:
corinthian (kuh-RIN-thee-uhn) adjective
1. Of, or pertaining to the Greek city of Corinth.
2. Of, or relating to the Corinthian order, one of the five classical orders of building design.
3. Highly ornate.
4. Licentious or luxurious.
noun
1. A native or inhabitant of Corinth.
2. A profligate or licentious person.
3. A wealthy amateur, especially an amateur yachtsman.
[From Latin Corinthius, from Greek Korinthios. After Corinth, a city in Greece, one of the richest and most powerful in ancient Greece.]
whilst here is a column from the Grauniad:
The Corinthian spirit
I think the meaning we are after is not "wealthy and licentious" (a chance would be a fine thing...) but "without paid help"!
Here is the entry in Wordsmith.org:
corinthian (kuh-RIN-thee-uhn) adjective
1. Of, or pertaining to the Greek city of Corinth.
2. Of, or relating to the Corinthian order, one of the five classical orders of building design.
3. Highly ornate.
4. Licentious or luxurious.
noun
1. A native or inhabitant of Corinth.
2. A profligate or licentious person.
3. A wealthy amateur, especially an amateur yachtsman.
[From Latin Corinthius, from Greek Korinthios. After Corinth, a city in Greece, one of the richest and most powerful in ancient Greece.]
whilst here is a column from the Grauniad:
The Corinthian spirit
I think the meaning we are after is not "wealthy and licentious" (a chance would be a fine thing...) but "without paid help"!
oldvarnish
Well-Known Member
Nothing to do with the Greeks. As earlier poster said, everything to do with the Corinthian football team founded in 1880 of Oxford and Cambridge students who played on the understanding that playing the game was more important than the winning or losing
Cornishman
Well-Known Member
Much the same at the Royal Plymouth Corinthian YC
absit_omen
Well-Known Member
No, I don't think so. Or am I missing the irony!
tcm
...
it *must* relate to Corinth
how can it not relate to greek? They didn't wake up one day and use the word "corinthian". It's used in shakespeare as well, so much older than 1880's.
how can it not relate to greek? They didn't wake up one day and use the word "corinthian". It's used in shakespeare as well, so much older than 1880's.
stephenh
Well-Known Member
Re: it *must* relate to Corinth
This has got me really curious - whereabouts in the Bard ?
chapter / verse ???
many thanks....
This has got me really curious - whereabouts in the Bard ?
chapter / verse ???
many thanks....
Sgeir
Well-Known Member
Re: it *must* relate to Corinth
Henry IV, Part 1
Act II, Scene IV. The Boar’s-Head Tavern, Eastcheap.
Enter Prince Henry and Poins
Prince Henry: Ned, prithee, come out of that fat room, and lend me thy hand to laugh a little.
Poins: Where hast been, Hal?
Prince Henry: With three or four loggerheads amongst three or four score hogsheads. I have sounded the very base-string of humility. Sirrah, I am sworn brother to a leash of drawers; and can call them all by their christen names, as Tom, Dick, and Francis. They take it already upon their salvation, that though I be but the prince of Wales, yet I am king of courtesy; and tell me flatly I am no proud Jack, like Falstaff, but a Corinthian, a lad of mettle, a good boy, by the Lord, so they call me, and when I am king of England, I shall command all the good lads in Eastcheap. They call drinking deep, dyeing scarlet; and when you breathe in your watering, they cry “hem!” and bid you play it off. To conclude, I am so good a proficient in one quarter of an hour, that I can drink with any tinker in his own language during my life. I tell thee, Ned, thou hast lost much honour, that thou wert not with me in this sweet action. But, sweet Ned,—to sweeten which name of Ned, I give thee this pennyworth of sugar, clapped even now into my hand by an under-skinker, one that never spake other English in his life than “Eight shillings and sixpence” and “You are welcome,” with this shrill addition, “Anon, anon, sir! Score a pint of [--word removed--] in the Half-Moon,” or so. But, Ned, to drive away the time till Falstaff come, I prithee, do thou stand in some by-room, while I question my puny drawer to what end he gave me the sugar; and do thou never leave calling “Francis,” that his tale to me may be nothing but “Anon.” Step aside, and I’ll show thee a precedent.
Poins: Francis!
Prince Henry: Thou art perfect.
Poins: Francis!
Exit Poins
And so on.............
Henry IV, Part 1
Act II, Scene IV. The Boar’s-Head Tavern, Eastcheap.
Enter Prince Henry and Poins
Prince Henry: Ned, prithee, come out of that fat room, and lend me thy hand to laugh a little.
Poins: Where hast been, Hal?
Prince Henry: With three or four loggerheads amongst three or four score hogsheads. I have sounded the very base-string of humility. Sirrah, I am sworn brother to a leash of drawers; and can call them all by their christen names, as Tom, Dick, and Francis. They take it already upon their salvation, that though I be but the prince of Wales, yet I am king of courtesy; and tell me flatly I am no proud Jack, like Falstaff, but a Corinthian, a lad of mettle, a good boy, by the Lord, so they call me, and when I am king of England, I shall command all the good lads in Eastcheap. They call drinking deep, dyeing scarlet; and when you breathe in your watering, they cry “hem!” and bid you play it off. To conclude, I am so good a proficient in one quarter of an hour, that I can drink with any tinker in his own language during my life. I tell thee, Ned, thou hast lost much honour, that thou wert not with me in this sweet action. But, sweet Ned,—to sweeten which name of Ned, I give thee this pennyworth of sugar, clapped even now into my hand by an under-skinker, one that never spake other English in his life than “Eight shillings and sixpence” and “You are welcome,” with this shrill addition, “Anon, anon, sir! Score a pint of [--word removed--] in the Half-Moon,” or so. But, Ned, to drive away the time till Falstaff come, I prithee, do thou stand in some by-room, while I question my puny drawer to what end he gave me the sugar; and do thou never leave calling “Francis,” that his tale to me may be nothing but “Anon.” Step aside, and I’ll show thee a precedent.
Poins: Francis!
Prince Henry: Thou art perfect.
Poins: Francis!
Exit Poins
And so on.............
Sgeir
Well-Known Member
Shakespeare censored by IPC
Just noticed that Shakespeare's been censored by our moderators in the above post. He was of course referring to "a pint of <span style="color:black">bas</span><span style="color:black">tard</span> in the Half-Moon".
Just noticed that Shakespeare's been censored by our moderators in the above post. He was of course referring to "a pint of <span style="color:black">bas</span><span style="color:black">tard</span> in the Half-Moon".
stephenh
Well-Known Member
Re: Shakespeare censored by IPC
many thanks - really appreciated.....
many thanks - really appreciated.....
Cornishman
Well-Known Member
Well they haven't had many members with paid hands on board lately!
Mirelle
N/A
Re: Shakespeare censored by IPC
Appreciated here also. I now recall that I remarked the passage as I was familiar with "Corinthian" yachting when I first read that passage.
Appreciated here also. I now recall that I remarked the passage as I was familiar with "Corinthian" yachting when I first read that passage.
jamesjermain
Well-Known Member
The Concise Oxford isa strangely reticent about Corinthian in this context, but Collins has the simple description I have always understood, ie 'An amateur sportsman'.
tcm
...
Lakesailored
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