B27
Well-known member
Stay in the harbour if you have any sense!
A mate had a little Strider cat which seemed to make a lot of progress with cruising chute
Comfortable cruising at 10 knots on a budget?
- Thread starter jaminb
- Start date
A mate had a little Strider cat which seemed to make a lot of progress with cruising chute
Buck Turgidson
Well-known member
That option isn't always available on day 6 of an offshore passage.
Chiara’s slave
Well-known member
My wife can’t seen in the dark any more, she finds night sailing frightening occasionally , and I find it tiring as she can’t take a watch, so the 120 plus miles we can tick off in the daytime are useful. F8, it’s not pleasant on a 30ft tri that weighs 2000kg, I doubt that is news to anyone. It’s a cat B boat, it’s not for 6 day passages. If you want that, buy a different boat. A big Gunboat or Dazcat will tick all the boxes and empty your bank account nicely. You simply cannot have it all.
Bear in mind you have 60 litre of water. This is not a blue water cruiser, though we have done Falmouth to St Trinite, in wind that never dropped below 30kn. Just the once thank you.
Bear in mind you have 60 litre of water. This is not a blue water cruiser, though we have done Falmouth to St Trinite, in wind that never dropped below 30kn. Just the once thank you.
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doug748
Well-known member
Yes, I think so impossible. Problem with the small inshore daysailers/weekender trimarans is that it would cut right across your comfort threshold, curtail your cruising, and bust your budget into the bargain. They are less than easy to single/short hand and would not cruise at the required speed anyway. Probably good fun in flat water though, like a lively dinghy
I agree with the others, a big cat with twin inboards would mostly do the job, at a price, keeping up the high averages by free use of the engines. You would have to treble your budget and finding one in Europe would be tricky. The overheads are huge on this type of buy:
https://www.yachtworld.co.uk/yacht/1990-privilege-catamaran-9342090/
Can't argue with that. I would have one of the older Elans or a for more speed a J109 needing love.
https://uk.boats.com/sailing-boats/2003-j-boats-j-109-9381161/
https://www.botentekoop.com/boat/1999-elan-362-9000268/
Must say I can't find much wrong with cruising at 5kts average, even "fast" boats don't top it by that much.
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AngusMcDoon
Well-known member
As the main on tris is usually significantly bigger than the headsail when heaving to the main will tend to overpower the headsail & start driving you forward a bit, & being fully battened cannot be fully depowered. If the helm is lashed to turn the boat into wind slightly the boat progresses forward slowly in S shapes. Heaving to on a tri doesn't work as effectively as on a monohull where it almost stops the boat, but it still slows everything down to a knot or 2 & allows a more comfortable rest. There will be a lot less rolling than on a monohull.
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AngusMcDoon
Well-known member
I don't agree with that. I had a DF920 for nearly 20 years & sailed 43k miles on it, mostly single handed. Restricting to the upwind sails only I had no problem on my own. A 920 might not quite be in the budget though, & maintenance may be expensive.
Chiara’s slave
Well-known member
Fast boats double that, I’m afraid. Though your mono choices can’t be discounted, good boats, you can blow those out of the water with a 6k strider catamaran. Not much comfort there of course. Tris like ours and Angus’s really are dramatically faster than any vaguely ordinary multi, even ones with a row of white socks on the rail.
westernman
Well-known member
On my light weight catamaran, a Hobby Cat FX One, I could effectively heave to by stopping head to wind, and then leting drift backwards in irons (cat rigged - just a huge main and no jib). I could then let go of the rudder and it would stay in irons and I could easily move around it. E.g. shimmying up the bow to reroute/retie the asymmetric sheets which were twisted or wrongly attached.
It was remarkably stable for a very lightweight cat in these conditions whatever the strength of the wind.
AngusMcDoon
Well-known member
Make a mess of a tack of a tri & you can end up stuck going nowhere. The main's battens can take an S shape & the sail does nothing at all! Can be tricky to get out of. It's a bit unpredictable though, so not a long rest heave to technique.
Chiara’s slave
Well-known member
Having a battened jib and all those diamonds on the mast, we avoid heaving to, a few rolls on the jib if we really have to. Avoiding it happening when tacking is a technique, a feel for the boat that I’m fairly sure you’ve mastered
Trident
Well-known member
My Quasar 50 should do it after I rebuilt it to have bigger sails and 2 tonnes less weight. I bought it after the hurricanes and rebuilt it myself over 7 months (dawn til dusk 7 days a week) and it came out ready to sail at about £80k (no charge for my 3000 hours) - though since then I've put in new engines, more of everything power wise (lithium and solar) and so on so it now owes me rather more.
She'll make 18 knots flat out and comfortably 12-14 knots . I built her light with the idea of making good progress in light winds (so added a fully battened, light airs synthetic jib) and a huge spinnaker. She has done 8 knots in under 10 knots of wind on exactly the right point of sail.
However, as for various injury related issues last year and covid before that for two years, we have been stuck coastal cruising the UK and France, Holland etc and when you factor in tides, fluky winds, lobster pots, motoring in to anchorages and marinas etc etc all the hard work has left us averaging 7-8 knots over a season . In part thats because I skimped on two blade folding props which mean when we have to motor its slower than our old fixed 3 blade props by about 1 knot and also I went from twin 30 hp Yanmars to 20 hp which are sufficient and the original spec for the boat (and 100kg lighter for the pair) but I'd say without spending a lot of money 8-10 knots average is near impossible and when you do spend a lot comfort gets in the way - the MD of a big cat brokerage told me the log in one Outremer 55 he was selling (a 20 knot plus performance cat) had repeated comments of "reefed for crew comfort" saying he fund 10 knots to be comfortable and more not so even on that boat...
She'll make 18 knots flat out and comfortably 12-14 knots . I built her light with the idea of making good progress in light winds (so added a fully battened, light airs synthetic jib) and a huge spinnaker. She has done 8 knots in under 10 knots of wind on exactly the right point of sail.
However, as for various injury related issues last year and covid before that for two years, we have been stuck coastal cruising the UK and France, Holland etc and when you factor in tides, fluky winds, lobster pots, motoring in to anchorages and marinas etc etc all the hard work has left us averaging 7-8 knots over a season . In part thats because I skimped on two blade folding props which mean when we have to motor its slower than our old fixed 3 blade props by about 1 knot and also I went from twin 30 hp Yanmars to 20 hp which are sufficient and the original spec for the boat (and 100kg lighter for the pair) but I'd say without spending a lot of money 8-10 knots average is near impossible and when you do spend a lot comfort gets in the way - the MD of a big cat brokerage told me the log in one Outremer 55 he was selling (a 20 knot plus performance cat) had repeated comments of "reefed for crew comfort" saying he fund 10 knots to be comfortable and more not so even on that boat...
doug748
Well-known member
Problem with boats is we see an extravagant speed on the dial and then choose to think that optimistic delusion is what you get. It never is.
Curious, I looked at this year's RIR results first for hot shot small multies, where I guess the median time was about 7.5 hours. then for a random group of well represented slow coaches: Beneteau Oceanis 37s, where I guestimate the median to be around 10.5 hours. Hot shots 40% faster then - taking our original 5kts to 7, as I mentioned never very astounding.
Taking those very rough figures the average speed was:
Hot shots 3.5kts
Benies 2.5kts
The lesson is if you want high average speeds get a big engine and use it regularly. Can't say I am keen.
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Curious, I looked at this year's RIR results first for hot shot small multies, where I guess the median time was about 7.5 hours. then for a random group of well represented slow coaches: Beneteau Oceanis 37s, where I guestimate the median to be around 10.5 hours. Hot shots 40% faster then - taking our original 5kts to 7, as I mentioned never very astounding.
Taking those very rough figures the average speed was:
Hot shots 3.5kts
Benies 2.5kts
The lesson is if you want high average speeds get a big engine and use it regularly. Can't say I am keen.
.
Chiara’s slave
Well-known member
The small ones are 26 footers ish. You then compare it to a 37 ft mono. And the babies are 40% faster, in fairly hair raising conditions. I’d have been well backed off in the 920. I see the DF28 owned by the UK importer did it in 6 hours 5 mins.. A 37ft cat, same length as your mono example, 5 mins quicker. The lesson is, you’re cherry picking. The difference is much bigger than you make out.
Chiara’s slave
Well-known member
Slowing down to 10 or so for eating and drinking is normal for us too. But happy to shake a reef out and get some miles under us after that, though we only accidentally exceed 15 knots cruising. The year before last we hit 19 on the GPS surfing into Poole entrance against the ebb, in a brisk SE wind. We are not eager to repeat that.
Trident
Well-known member
Yep, speed and comfort don't really mix at any price - even in the silly money categories like Gunboats those who have them say the noise is terrible and when speeds pick up moving around the boat inside or in the cockpit becomes a job of work...
doug748
Well-known member
Nope. Now that's cherry picking - taking the fastest boat as your exemplar. Very similar error to billboarding snapshot fast speeds.
If you like, compare it with the Contessa 32 group (which you have stated elsewhere that you think is "slow" ) , similar waterline length to the smaller multihulls.
Even less of a speed difference.
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Chiara’s slave
Well-known member
Fastest Contessa 32, 9 hours 4 mins.fastest small multi cruiser, 5 hours 47. Contessa weather, you’ll agree. If it was 15knots of wind, not 25 plus, the ratio would be much more.
westernman
Well-known member
Pogo 2 at 12 knots.
You can pick a well equipped one up for about 30K. Length 21 ft (6.5 m).
Is it comfortable???
You can pick a well equipped one up for about 30K. Length 21 ft (6.5 m).
Is it comfortable???
Chiara’s slave
Well-known member
Comfort wise, just like an F24 or Dragonfly 800. We used to cruise our DF800 with the kids. Speed wise, in 26-28kn of wind, not so impressive. That’s a 20kn ride in a tri. Take a change of underwear.
MisterBaxter
Well-known member
I just remembered - someone (possibly Dick Newick) said that a boat could be designed with any two of speed, comfort and economy. As the OP is asking for all three I guess the answer is probably no...