Choosing a new dinghy

[O_Long]

Hello all!

So, as the new season rushes towards us, I'm wondering what boat to choose next. Allow me to explain my situation.

I'm fifteen, 5' 9", about 50kg, and got into sailing midway last year. My dad was kind enough to put some funds towards a cheap wooden GP14, and I sailed that for the remainder of the season. We renovated it last winter and made a tidy profit on it. I'm now looking for a singlehander, since my crew is only going to be there every fortnight or so. My local sailing club operates on the River Witham in Boston, Lincolnshire, and there are no wide, open bodies of water that I can visit on a regular basis. This means I have no need for a boat with a spinnaker, I only need something with a large sail area. It also means my sailing experience involves a lot of tacking, as you would expect. There's not a huge variety of boats at our small club, so it's difficult finding one I like. Most people my age sail Toppers and Lasers (not my thing, really, I'll explain why later).

I'm looking for something quite specific, so I realise that compromises are going to have to be made in some places, but here goes. I'd like a single hander that's fairly simple to sail (I'm only up to Level 2 RYA), but fairly fast on rivers (maintain speed while tacking) while still being 'dry', that is, not likely to capsize or not likely to splash me. The dryness is fairly important since I race on a Wednesday evening, and I while I realise capsizing is an integral part of dinghy sailing, I don't particularly fancy getting wet every week, particularly since I bike to the club.

I've had many suggestions, but due to the tiny variety of boats at our club, I don't know how well they all perform on a river. Suggestions include the Solo (I've heard this is a bad boat?), the British Moth (too splashy, I think), the Europe (pretty rare to come across), and some other similar boats like the Phantom and the Comet. I've even been told to get a Grad or a Firefly and sail it with both sails, but I don't know if I'd feel comfortable doing this since I've never done it before.

Many thanks in advance,
Owen

 

[O_Long]

Bump

 

[onesea]

If it was not for splashy tippy requirement I would of said Laser, you would soon get good enough not to tip it every week . I used to do similar most school evening (well Wednesday through Friday). Once practiced dry capsizes are possible and cheap water proofs not that expensive, your club probably have changing rooms?

You would soon pick up on using 2 sail its not rocket science (can you sail GP on your own? in lighter airs). If you want good racing you are probably restricted to what your club have. Also allot will come down to budget and transportation newer designs are often more costly. Do you have access to a car & driver with tow-bar?

 

[TimBennet]

Have a good look at the Solo. It's a very active class that seems to be very inclusive.

 

[O_Long]

Well, the boat would most likely stay at the club, only being taken down to Rutland every couple of months for some fun , but yes, we have a tow-bar.

I know I'm being fussy about how splashy the boat is, it's just on a Wednesday night with cold water it's not very fun getting soggy - not to mention the changing rooms are very small and the club is far away from the course, so we often have to wait for those who are fastest at getting back to the jetty and packed up to get changed before we can get out of our wet clothes!

Never tried sailing a boat with two sails on my own, I suppose it would be easy to learn since I prefer aft-main (was taught by the older club members - this may explain my love of 'old-fashioned' sailing with aft-main, classic wooden boats! ), but with the amount of tacking we do on that narrow river, I'd worry about being overwhelmed in a stiff gale.

Thanks for the quick replies, by the way.

 

[langstonelayabout]

1: What your fellow club members sail will suit your local conditions. Recommend you stick with those for a starter.
2: Solo. Great boat and not too splashy (get yourself a wetsuit: no person ever sailed dinghies for long and stayed dry).
3: Phantom. Forget it; you are about 50kg too light. I've had one and it was good but I'm much heavier than you (and have no sense of self-preservation)
4: RS300 is a fab class for your weight and is good to sail or you can look at something like a Europe or Lightening 368.
5: British Moth. Don't be silly, they're about 50 years out of date.
6: Don't be tempted by an International Moth either; you're about the right weight but it'd be a disaster because you need to come 'up through the classes' for a few years yet.
7: Boat with two sails? Try a Pacer (with a bungee between tiller and toestraps you will be able to get the spinnaker up singlehanded too!).

 

[Searush]

First off, sailing dinghies means getting wet unless you potter round like a wimp - it is part of the learning & improvement process (& the fun).

So, leave a set of old clothes & waterproofs at the club, or get a cheap wetsuit. TBH, old shorts, t-shirt, rugby top & a lightweight waterproof jacket & trousers are fine & can be picked up from charity shops, or your own rag bag. A wet suit can be tiring & uncomfortable over a few hours. I certainly wouldn't get into a dinghy in my street clothes unless I knew it was utterly watertight & a steady light wind. Most of my dinghies have filled up with water over an hour or so.

There should be somewhere to shower & change & you can easily carry the kit home in a rucksack to wash & dry ready for next time if you wish.

I have a Laser & no longer fall in, but the rest of the family still do. It sharpens your reflexes. I acquired a Solo thinking it would be better for taking the G-kids out, but it wasn't really altho ducking under the boom was easier & my reactions did not need to be quite so quick. I now have a GP14 which is brilliant & bone dry when sailed on my todd, having a jib sheet to cleat is no problem at all and it is brilliant for taking an adult plus a couple of junior passengers.

If you really want an easy boat to sail, go for a Mirror, you can set it up with one or 2 sails & it is an easy single hander that is quite hard to capsize unless you are too bloody minded to take a hint. But if there are no others in the club you won't be doing much racing.

 

[Seajet]

If you can find a Firefly and it suits the range of club boats, is in sound condition ( I know there were a few grp ones but the wood jobs have a lot more character ) the double diagonal construction is getting on now and a right pain to work on - it would be a great boat for you, manageable but rewarding; and handling 2 sails while no big deal once you learn the tricks ( for a start, tie the jibsheets together; that way you can always reach the loaded sheet from the windward side ) would teach you a lot about boat handling, design too.

Another consideration is weight of the boat; will you have to pull it up a steep slipway on your own ? The Solo is a bit heavy in this respect.

One thing, sails are expensive, often a new suit will cost way more than the boat, but putting up with tired old baggy things is miserable, so sail condition is paramount.

Langstonelayabouts' suggestion of a Pacer is a good one, or maybe a Gull; there are lots of good boats going for buttons at the moment, just keep an eye out on club notice boards and local papers, mags etc; it will largely come down to what happens along at the right time and place - and grabs you, you will know !

 

[yachtorion]

I'm a member of a river based club in York (YRISC). I tend to sail my Wanderer or Sailing Canoe, or the club RS Visions. In the club we have GP14s, Toppers, Lasers, and a scattering of other stuff such as a pair of RS200s. The club itself has Visions, a 200, some GPs and topper it lends out.

My concern if you go for something like a Solo or even the Gull/Pacer is that if you are racing rather than cruising you'll outgrow it in terms of experience quite quickly and want something a bit more exciting. I sailed a Laser a little when I was 15 and at Level 2 and enjoyed it... though it was a handful. They're a great boat on a river, and a reasonably fit 15 year old should be able to learn to dry capsize something like a laser fairly quickly. You could always go for one of the smaller rigs at first.

Sailing a single hander on your own in race conditions on a river it will be difficult to get the tacks smooth enough to stay competitive - it's all about not losing speed in those tacks and more than anything that means proper tack drill.

There is another reason for the Laser.... in club racing it's much more fun to sail against boats of the same type, even if they are just part of a wider handicap race.

Do get a wetsuit...

Whatever boat you pick up have lots of fun with it!

 

[O_Long]

@SeaRush

I do agree; the best experience I've ever had sailing was in a Scorpion with my instructor at Rutland.. it was also coincidentally one of the most terrifying experiences! I normally wear a tee shirt and swimming shorts as you suggest, but even these are cold and annoying when wet. Despite it being a part of sailing, it isn't essential to be wet to have fun. Coupled with the two showers between 20-odd sailors on a quiet day, and it becomes even less enjoyable.

This is why I looked into things like the Europe and the OK, which to me seem to look pretty high off the water and stable.. but as I say I'm no expert, so that's why I'm asking. For all I know, they could be a pig on rivers (as I've heard said of the Solo/"Slowlo"), but because of the handicap system, this may not be an issue.

 

[explores]

I liked my Graduate.

 

[Rivers & creeks]

There's a reason why the Laser is so popular - it's a great and you get to race against others and hone your skills, handicap racing hides all sorts of user errors. You won't be capsizing very often and a dry bag for clothes solves the consequences of the splashing problem. Also loads to choose from and easy to sell. And almost no maintenance. Solo and Graduate are good boats and maybe look at the OK, but not a nice looking boat in my opinion.

 

[jon711]

For your weight and with river sailing, something like a Streaker, Laser Radial, Soloution would be suitable. Do not dismiss the British Moth, very technical boat with tweaky bits on the rig, it may not be a "trendy" boat, but you will learn an awful lot about tuning and setting a rig up...

However, for your weight, and location, I would have thought a Streaker would be the ideal boat....

Jon

 

[rob2]

I'm not up on modern dinghy designs, but the trend is toward very large, tweakable rigs on twitchy hulls for pure speed. It makes for a demanding and high energy sport, requiring a drysuit to avoid hyperthermia by halfway through the race. The only problem with slower, older boats is that you'll always be at the back of the fleet which can become discouraging even if you are well placed on handicap! Whichever boat you chose, and it must suit your weight to avoid being overwhelmed in gusty conditions, a drysuit might prove to be the best investment of all.

Rob.

 

[Greenheart]

I reckon it's worth looking ahead a year or two; as a kid I remember being continually frustrated by sailing boats which weren't as rewarding as the ones my peers were sailing...

...if Owen has any significant experience, he'll quite quickly be bored and irritated by the little, slow designs which were mainly intended not to scare novices.

Plus, at age 15 he may easily gain 15 kilos between now and this time next year, so it doesn't make sense to buy a rather tame boat just because he can already manage it.

The fact he'll sometimes have a crew, suggests something more ambitious. Thinking back to being 15, I was pissed that my boat didn't have room for a girlfriend. She was pissed, too.

I envied Laser owners for their air of easy perfomance, though I never much admired the boat itself...God knows, it's not designed for anything but drip-dry low-tech performance.

As a mid-weight singlehander who's bought a very big dinghy, I've no regrets, but I don't know whether my club would let me race alone in the Osprey, even if I thought I could...

...but the interest and versatility of having more than one sail is definitely recommended, and for almost every reason, a bigger boat is much, much better than a smaller one!

May I suggest the Laser 2...? There are various pictures of this design being singlehanded skilfully, while it is basically an exciting, low-maintenance two-crew racer.

Footage of a young lad singlehanding a Laser 2, here:

...mute your volume though, the soundtrack is unfit for ears of any age.

 

[O_Long]

For your weight and with river sailing, something like a Streaker, Laser Radial, Soloution would be suitable. Do not dismiss the British Moth, very technical boat with tweaky bits on the rig, it may not be a "trendy" boat, but you will learn an awful lot about tuning and setting a rig up...

However, for your weight, and location, I would have thought a Streaker would be the ideal boat....

Jon

Many thanks Jon, though I'm unsure about the Streaker's small sail area, especially compared against Lasers (of which the Streaker seems to be very similar to). You say they do perform well on rivers?

I liked my Graduate.

Yes, I adore the look of the Grad, in fact there was one for sale cheaply nearby that we very nearly ended up buying, but the loss of my crew prevented me from that. Perhaps in the future with a little more experience, I'll have a look for one to sail on my own.


Many thanks to Dan, too - though what that clip doesn't show is the endless tacking up and down a river with no steady wind - there is either no wind, or there is a brief squall. I feel something as fast as a Laser 2 would be somewhat of a waste on a river - though again, it's certainly something to consider for the future. I'm fully aware that my situation may change drastically - be that a change in location, the retrieval of my crew, or the urge for something entirely different (which, knowing me, is entirely possible ), and I'd have no qualms about selling on the boat that I potentially buy this season and getting something that suits the needs of my future self.

At the moment, I'm leaning towards a Solo, or even a Europe from what I've heard. Despite wanting a "fairly fast" boat as I originally said, the sheer joy of sailing itself cannot be overstated. It's likely my own fault for not being clear, but I'd be much happier in a boat that maintains a steady speed and can occasionally win than in a boat that is guaranteed to win (in this case, I would buy a Laser 1 or even a Laser 2, as has been suggested) but is strenuous to sail. I'm aware I sound like an old man here, and that's probably why I like the sound of the Solo! I've sailed Lasers quite a few times now, and I never really enjoyed the experience, despite winning on most occasions. In fact, I ended up capsizing a Laser 2 one night, and after swapping boats for a friend's Topper, I had tons of fun - mostly because it didn't matter how wet I got since I'd already capsized. In spite of being smaller and slower, the Topper was easier to control and more forgiving after a mistake.

So perhaps I'm going about this the wrong way. Perhaps a drysuit is the best investment at the moment - and yet (despite being part of sailing) the prospect of being freezing cold and queuing in a line of potentially a dozen people to get changed in a cramped changing room every Wednesday night doesn't appeal to me. Once in a while, sure, but not every time I go sailing. Thinking on that, maybe I'm looking for too much from one boat, and getting two cheap boats is the way to go - a 'wet' boat like a Topper or even a Laser for when it's warm and/or on a Saturday (the other night I go sailing), and something more dry, spacious and relaxing for a cold night when I just want to sail.

Then again (yes, changing my mind a lot here!) I don't want to pay too much for something that I might grow out of, and perhaps there is a boat that fulfils my criteria (again, Solo or Europe seems to fit the bill). I'm no expert here, those were just my thoughts, and if you guys have any more suggestions or thoughts then I'd be more than grateful to hear them. So far you've all been a big help!

 

[Searush]

Right, there will never be a boat perfect for all types of sailing, so you HAVE to pick what sort of sailing is most important to you. Two cheap old boats may be a good idea if they meet different needs & you can fund them - most clubs charge for a second boat store slot.

Don't worry too much about "getting the wrong boat" or "growing out of it". If you buy something reasonably priced & tidy it up a bit you won't have too much trouble selling it on with little or no loss of value, you might even make a few quid on it if you win a few races in it.

I enjoyed my Solo & despite it's "Slowlo" nickname it was not much behind the Laser & a lot easier to keep upright & tack. I never capsized it, but the Laser hooks the mainsheet under the transom corner from time to time & that can be exciting to deal with.

 

[Greenheart]

I never race, but I'm always glad to have bought a boat which rewards input of sensitivity & skill, rather than a tub that mightn't go much faster in Ben Ainsley's hands than mine.

I reckon a long waterline helps to make the most of light winds. I haven't sailed inland for years, but skiffs/light high-performance designs are probably least suitable for river-work.

Interesting that fairly sedate, old-fashioned designs like the Albacore are competitive in the hands of senior, wily crews who've learned how to take every advantage from them.

A school-mate of mine sailed a Firefly, very similar to the Albacore but 20% smaller. Not a long waterline, but a well-respected, widely-sailed design. Room for two, too. Worth a look.

The only reason I don't have a drysuit is that I can't fund one. That said, my wetsuit is easily good enough most of the time, and unnecessary when the wind's light. I didn't have a wetsuit till I reached my 20s, and I'm still held back by a fear of cold-water capsizing which I developed as a kid. Be prepared to pay plenty to stay warm when you get wet. :encouragement:

 

[O_Long]

the Laser hooks the mainsheet under the transom corner from time to time & that can be exciting to deal with.

Exciting to you, annoying and somewhat terrifying when it first happened to me!

A school-mate of mine sailed a Firefly, very similar to the Albacore but 20% smaller. Not a long waterline, but a well-respected, widely-sailed design. Room for two, too. Worth a look.

There was one at the club last year - the guy who sailed it didn't get on with it all, or so he tells me. That said, he's about twice my weight and a much more experienced sailor.

 

[136069]

Laser / Lightning 368 / Solo

I see you've sailed a Laser before, have you tried a Solo? Often worth trying a friend's / club members before you make a purchase, just to see what the boat feels like and if you really feel you can't get on with it!