choice of boat -- and I know it's been done to death!

[loverobot]

Firstly would like to say hello; my 1st post on here

I''m loooking at buying our 1st yacht and have come against quite a dilemma in terms of what I need to have and spend. Because I dont have first hand experience of yachts having only sailed on a bavaria 36 I am hoping that the forumites can lend me your collective knowledge

My wife and I are experienced dinghy sailors and I have just done the dayskipper theory - I am doing the day skipper practical in 2 weeks in the channel islands where my wife is doing the comp crew, and am joining a flotilla in Greece in June. I did the comp crew last October (with Hot Liquid (!)) crossing the channel inc force 8 wind and 6 m seas as well as 15 hours + night sailing - so quite a baptism of (wet) fire. That however is all I will have done

I havent got megabucks to spend but can do 30k comfortably plus a bit more if warranted. My dilemma however is whether I really need to spend so much and what to buy that is suitable short term and also longer term - perhaps even proper ocean crossings if fitted out accordingly eventually

Every time I look at boatshed or apollo duck there appears to be another boat that looks ideal but they vary wildly in price and not for immediately obvious reasons

I want a boat that is seakindly and ok for a couple of novices and our 11 year old - I do however want a boat that we can sail out of whitehaven initially and when the mood takes us move her to firstly the south coast, then the channel islands, then further afield. I am not too fussed about huge amounts of space as we are all pretty small height and girth wise.(!)

I have looked at sadlers - from 27' upto the 34' (which is a stretch on the budget), contessas, moody 31', 33 and 27'. Also looking at Jaguar 27s which seem very cheap - whats the catch? Looking at Vegas as well again which seem very cheap

Will any of these type of boats 'do' for what I want? Is there any good reason to spend 30k on a slightly larger boat as all I seem to get is a door on the rear berth? If I buy according to condition is there a downside to buying an older boat? The bavaria I was in was v roomy but didnt like the bashing it toook - it seemed v light and uncomfortable in the heavy seas esp when we were beating into the wind and tide for hours

Sorry if the above is a bit random but it really is quite confusing - I hope that some of you remember being a novice and can help me to understand the options

On a totally separate note - does anyone take cats on boats and are they generally ok - seen lots about dogs but not cats...!

Many thanks

 

[caerolusmagnus]

Choice of boat

You are on the right track to try out various boats before you buy. It is a sea-lifestyle choice. The Bavaria and many modern types with wide beam, high topsides, bluff bows, bathtub shape with pointed front are to my mind designed for charter trade and weekending in quiet weather windows. We sailed a 32ft of similar design recently and spent several hours trying to go upwind but mostly sideways.

I have gone back to the older designs with less accommodation and better sea performance hulls such as Contessa 32 with narrow beam, lower freeboard, deeper keel, skeg rudder and sharp bow overhangs. Had one for ten years; should not have sold it. Now with Ohlson 38 undergoing renovation. Same design concepts with a wee bit more room.

Cheers!

 

[ghostlymoron]

There are lots of different makes that are safe and fast enough for cruising as well as having the accomodation you need. Your budget is large enough to provide you with a good choice. You need to ask yourself (and answer) two important questions before taking the plunge:-
1. what area are you going to keep your boat
2. what sort of sailing do you (and your family) intend to do

The second question is crucial. Everyone sets out with the intention of blue water cruising at some stage but relatively few of us actually do it. Also most overestimate the amount of sailing they are going to do. (Due to weather, tides, family commitments, work commitments etc. etc.)
There is no need to buy a boat now for ocean sailing in 10years time - boats can be sold and bought again to suit changing needs! Get something that will suit your needs now.
With your sort of budget, I would get something no older than 1990 as that will mean the equipment is unlikely to need extensive upgrades during your ownership and also will have as standard most of the creature comforts (heating, hot water) that we all crave. Also the engine will still have some life in it.

 

[GrumpyOldGit]

Westerley Storm 33, Westerley Fulmar 32, Westerley GK29. Dehler 31/34, Sadler32, Sigma 33. All will give you what you want with the bonus of a bit of 'round the cans' fun. Plus1 with the post 1990 era boats, you should not have to spend money except on rope and rags and then only on a cheaper example.
Check out Hamble point for the country's largest used boat choice and make sure you try them on before getting excited at internet exagerration ! Basically any of the 3/4-1/2 tonner designs make a damn fine cruising boat which has been proven at many levels...

 

[Quandary]

Yes people do take cats, I spent an entertaining afternoon searching the back gardens of Tarbert when the one on the boat we were rafted to escaped, I do not think it ever came back but Tarbert is a friendly village.
As for choice of boat, as a dinghy sailor you will soon tire of something that does not sail well but while you may find it hard to believe now, you will not keep your first boat for ever so just buy something you both like, that sails well enough to give you pleasure when you are using it.
Do not buy something cheap that no one else wants, you will have the same problem when you go to change it, buy a boat that is in demand, then you can dispose of it without waiting years to find a buyer.

 

[tom_sail]

All the boats you list are well known for their sea keeping attributes, but some sail like caravans. I too came from dinghies and found the 30 foot westerly and moody range sluggish and unresponsive on the tiller/wheel.

When I was looking to upgrade from dinghies one of my criteria was to handle like a dinghy but be comfortable in the rougher stuff. As your a dinghy sailor you probably also want a bit of feedback from the tiller/wheel.
The Sadler's and contessa will offer this as well as keeping very safe.

I would be inclined to look at the Albin Ballad.

I decided on the British Hunter Horizon 26 as it sails like a dinghy but has ok sea keeping attributes.

A few more ideas:

>Westerly fulmar
>British Hunter, either the horizon 30 or channel 32, a little more tender but sails like a dinghy and will keep you safe. (not to be confused with Amercian built Hunter Lengends, completely different things)
>Albin Ballad
> Elizabethan 30
>Sigma of any size all good although a lot have been raced hard now.

 

[Norman_E]

Firstly, welcome to the forums (madhouses?).

You will find plenty of advocates for different designs, and several have been mentioned already. The only way to decide what to buy is to look at lots of boats, checking their accomodation, and their reputation as good or indifferent sailing boats. The Contessa 32 will get lots of praise for its seakeeping and sailing abilty, rightly so, but even tatty examples seem to be priced above other boats that run them close.

Ultimately, with a family to please, you may find that you get more sailing with a boat that has the right accomodation and an easy motion, rather than a performance boat that may give you a wetter ride.

Once you have narrowed your choice down a bit you are certain to find people on here who own or have owned the particular models.

 

[BAtoo]

Buy a "name" as you will find it easier to sell on later.

Albin Ballad, Sadler 32, Westerly Fulmar (best of the Westerlys), Contessa 32 (quite narrow), Albin vega (tight accommodation, pig in reverse), GK 29 (quite tender), Beneteau First 325 (sails very well - probably better than anything else in this list).

 

[TQA]

Adult cats often do not like being aboard when sailing and may take the first opportunity to desert, however if a kitten grows up on a boat as a liveaboard they usually do well.

Another vote for a Bene first somewhere between 30 and 35 feet. Performance, resaleable and fun.

 

[webcraft]

Albin Vega

Albin vega (tight accommodation, pig in reverse),

To clarify - the accommodation is tight compared to the other boats in that list, which are 30-32 ft - the Vega is 27ft. As for the 'pig in reverse' - well, exactly what percentage of your tike is spent motoring backwards? And - it is only a question of practice . . . after nine years I have nearly got the hang of it.

Vegas are currently cheap as chips, and you can buy one and make it 'ocean-ready' for £15k. Here's one already re-engined for just £8k. A couple can live aboard for extended periods comfortably, but with more than two people and with the OP's budget I would be looking at something bigger.

maybe a Nic32 or even a 36?

Here's a gorgeous looking Nic 36 that would leave you with £50 change: (click for details)





Or if you want an affordable, bombproof long-distance boat then perhaps a Warrior 35?



- W

 

[ghostlymoron]

[QUOTE
>Sigma of any size all good although a lot have been raced hard now.[/QUOTE]
This one looks well priced, well equipped and being a 33C (cruiser spec) is unlikely to have been thrashed around.

 

[tom_sail]

This one looks well priced, well equipped and being a 33C (cruiser spec) is unlikely to have been thrashed around.

Been looking at that very one for a while, if I could stump on the Marina fees I'd be very tempted.

 

[Quandary]

[QUOTE
>Sigma of any size all good although a lot have been raced hard now.

This one looks well priced, well equipped and being a 33C (cruiser spec) is unlikely to have been thrashed around.[/QUOTE]

He is a dinghy sailor, used to tweaking his rig to change sail shape, the 33c is a masthead version with a small rig and shallow keel marketed to appeal to those who did not want to be bothered, no fun at all by comparison with an OOD.
Believe it or not there are still 33 OODs around that have never been seriously raced but you can pay about 25% more for them, there were several hundred made but only about 100 ever competed in one design racing in the UK.

 

[fergie_mac66]

2 penneth

The jump from dingy to 33 foot plus is a big leap get something a bit smaller,cheaper to get afloat 25 foot (spend 5/6000),learn to handle it, While not going too far, after a summer you should know what you want . Then change up a size for what you want you will have fun while gaining cheap experience

 

[Kurrawong_Kid]

Had an Elizabethen 30 for 8 years and a Centurion 32 for 16 years. Both did what you want and are within budget. Sailed both extensively and as a dinghy sailor found both very responsive. Make sure you find one that has been updated though. Also consider Wauquiez Gladiateur and Praetorian, both excellent more modern yachts.

 

[V1701]

You'll have loads of fun in a Vega, show me a boat that's better value for money - properly set up it will do oceans if that's what you want and IMO you'd almost certainly find the accommodation/load carrying more comfortable/practical than you might think, especially so if you're less than 5'8" and slim. E.g the saloon settee berths are full length/width not tapering with your feet in trotter box. You could do a lot worse than buying a reengined Vega, you'd lose not much if you sold it on to move up in size, you might keep it and have a sizeable chunk of money left for your cruising fund. BTW I live on my Vega and love it...

 

[Bosun Higgs]

I decided on the British Hunter Horizon 26 as it sails like a dinghy but has ok sea keeping attributes.

Had one of those for 6 years and whilst I agree about the dinghy bit, it's that which makes for poor sea keeping performance. No way would I recommend one of those for the OP's planned use namely "what to buy that is suitable short term and also longer term - perhaps even proper ocean crossings if fitted out accordingly eventually" and with an 11 year old.

 

[Bosun Higgs]

Sorry if the above is a bit random but it really is quite confusing - I hope that some of you remember being a novice and can help me to understand the options

Boats that are cheap to buy are always cheap for a reason and are usually cheap when you come to sell them - if indeed you can sell them. I would fight shy of recommending a particular boat to you because it is a personal choice. What I would recommend is that you buy something popular and easy to re-sell since you are highly unlikely to buy the boat of your dreams first time round, or even fourth time round in my case.

Bear in mind people's prejudices. Bavaria for example make excellent cheap boats but there are a lot of sailors who would not buy one and this will affect resale value. Bit like buying a Fiat car - depreciates fast.

The boat that is suitable for pottering round UK coastal waters isnt suitable for ocean crossing / liveaboard and vice versa. Maybe the best thing is to buy a boat with a 3 or 4 year timescale in mind and learn the ropes in that time period rather than try to buy now for the long term.

Buy the boat that fits your capabilities. Sailing a cruiser is easier than a dinghy so you already have those skills. Nav is easy if you use your brain. But the big difference between a yacht and a dinghy is in the maintenance. Yachts are way more complicated and need far more TLC which is very expensive if you have to use a yard to do the work. So only buy a big old boat if you are a good DIY mechanic. If you arent then go for a smaller newer one.

Which really brings me to my basic rules:

1/ buy one of the big popular brands that are easy to sell
2/ buy the smallest boat you can live with to keep costs sensible
3/ condition is important - replacing engines and sails and osmosis jobs all cost serious dosh.
4/ never talk yourself into buying something you arent sure about.

 

[ianat182]

The Halmatic 30 Mk1 or 2,(£26K)long keel ,excellent performer and good accomodation;(one of those on my Lottery list!)
Westerly Fulmar; several were adopted as Sailing School boats and very well thought of - good performers (£24-26K);
Westerly Konsort ;stable, reasonable performance ,good sea boat, accommodation and (£20-24k).
Rival34 (or Rival 32), the 34 is the better looker, but both good seaboats and would look after you all in rough weather; with the high bow and sheer they look more classical than the more recent breeds. Because of age only they can be bought more cheaply say £28-30K.
Nothing wrong either with the Moody marque;cheapest will be the Angus Primrose designs with the flared bow sections (and a dry sail); a 33 footer, or even larger, would be around your budget price-they've sailed the Atlantic etc. Accommodation very good too.

As with all choices the sticking point is often, do you have a mooring arranged first, as this will govern the size of yacht as well; marina fees can make it a very expensive activity, and a dinghy and outboard would be a good purchase too.

Good luck in your search. and welcome to the forums.

ianat182

 

[webcraft]

The boat that is suitable for pottering round UK coastal waters isnt suitable for ocean crossing / liveaboard and vice versa.

A sweeping generalisation.

We've done all three very happily with our Albin Vega.

- W