Cheap boating across the Channel? Decent resources for navigation?

[applebadger]

Hi all. I live on a 45' narrowboat which I've taken to places a narrowboat probably shouldn't have been to on the tidal Thames. I wanted to go further so I recently bought a little 1976 18' Colvic Watson which the previous owner had taken the mast and sails off...so it's now a slow displacement motor cruiser. Purchase price was probably less than a service on a 'proper' nice big dual engined boat!

Did a fair bit of work on the 20hp Volvo Penta inboard (fitted in the late 80s) and it now runs very well. Hull speed is around 6-7 kts, and it seems to cruise at 3/4 throttle at around 6 knots. It's moored in Greenwich on the Thames, and I've taken it as far as Queenborough and Leigh-on-sea which I'm now reasonably confident with, lots of fun! Punching the flood tide outbound from Greenwich it'll make 3kts. It's got a bracket for an auxiliary outboard and I intend to fit a little 10hp 2 stroke Mariner or similar.

Navigating, buoys, markers, accounting for tides and everything else is all still relatively new to me, I'm still learning! It has an old but functional Raymarine plotter as a backup, but I've been using an iPad with Savvy Navvy most of the time. I also have paper charts of the estuary, and know the basics of how to read and plot a course.

However, after reading a few threads on here, I seem to have caught the bug to want to cross the Channel. My ex partner used to have a flat in Calais so I know the town and marina fairly well, so it seems like a natural destination. From what I've read, doing a hop from Greenwich to Ramsgate and then Ramsgate to Calais in a good window of weather seems to be a proven route.

First thing I'd like to ask is if crossing the channel in a boat which does 6knts is a daft idea or not, people seem to have done similar motoring in sailing craft in around 6-7 hours - is this realistic?

Second thing is where a good resource for learning about navigating the Channel, and all the bits of info specific to this bit of water...how the sandbanks shift, the traffic separation, ferry routes to avoid, VHF channels, procedure on arrival, forms to fill in, paperwork etc. Gleaned a bit of info from various sites but haven't found anything decent so far.

Thanks!

 

[Alicatt]

If you are coming to the inland waterways we mostly all (>95%) use the Waterkaarten App on iPhone/Android/PC it covers Denmark, Germany, The Netherlands, Belgium, Luxemburg, France and UK.
It is updated regularly with Notices to Mariners covering the above countries and has details of locks and bridges and also harbours and marinas
Waterkaarten App (voorheen ANWB Waterkaarten)

 

[applebadger]

If you are coming to the inland waterways we mostly all (>95%) use the Waterkaarten App on iPhone/Android/PC it covers Denmark, Germany, The Netherlands, Belgium, Luxemburg, France and UK.
It is updated regularly with Notices to Mariners covering the above countries and has details of locks and bridges and also harbours and marinas
Waterkaarten App (voorheen ANWB Waterkaarten)

Great, thanks for that! I'm currently only intending to come across to Calais, moor in the marina for a few days and come back but that's really good to know in case I want to venture further.

 

[LittleSister]

First thing I'd like to ask is if crossing the channel in a boat which does 6knts is a daft idea or not, people seem to have done similar motoring in sailing craft in around 6-7 hours - is this realistic?

Second thing is where a good resource for learning about navigating the Channel, and all the bits of info specific to this bit of water...how the sandbanks shift, the traffic separation, ferry routes to avoid, VHF channels, procedure on arrival, forms to fill in, paperwork etc. Gleaned a bit of info from various sites but haven't found anything decent so far.

Thanks!

Boatwise it is very doable at 6 knots (faster than most of the boats I've done it in!). It will take longer than you think/calculate, though. You do need to be very confident of the reliability of your engine, etc. if you are doing it in an old boat, minus its sailing rig, that you don't know well. Those are congested waters with various dangers, including fast moving big ships, and definitely not somewhere you'd want to be broken down. I'd recommend having an outboard with you, and a tried and tested means of mounting it to power the boat, in the event you break down midway through the busy shipping channels.

More importantly, and more challengingly, you really do need to know what you are doing with regard to navigation, Collision Regulations (the 'rules of the road'), tides, VHF protocol, etc., etc. That you are asking for info specific to this bit of water suggests to me that you don't yet have the knowledge and understanding required. If you had that, you'd know where/how to find it and, more importantly, be able to fully appreciate and understand the implications of what you were looking at when you had it (no to mention better appreciate how much you still don't know).

I suggest you enrol yourself on a RYA Dayskipper course, where you will learn the basics. This can be done at various commercial schools, yacht clubs or 'adult learning' establishments. This can be done online some places, but I think you will learn more, and more effectively, doing this in 'real life' classroom, not least from comparing notes, experiences and challenges with other students.

 

[Alicatt]

Funny enough the RYA newsletter today has an article on taking your boat to France

Further to LittleSister's advice, if you do want to venture in to the inland waters, you will need a CEVNI certificate and ICC.

I am doing the Day Skipper course just now and I do wish I could have done it in a classroom rather than online, practical is at the end of next month. I did the Powerboat Level 2 course along with my wife it helped give her confidence in taking the helm and knowing a bit about what was happening with the boat, now with the Day Skipper there is more about navigation and preparing for a short voyage.

You can download samples of the course books from the RYA that can be read in their RYA Books App, that does not cost any money.

 

[applebadger]

Boatwise it is very doable at 6 knots (faster than most of the boats I've done it in!). It will take longer than you think/calculate, though. You do need to be very confident of the reliability of your engine, etc. if you are doing it in an old boat, minus its sailing rig, that you don't know well. Those are congested waters with various dangers, including fast moving big ships, and definitely not somewhere you'd want to be broken down. I'd recommend having an outboard with you, and a tried and tested means of mounting it to power the boat, in the event you break down midway through the busy shipping channels.

More importantly, and more challengingly, you really do need to know what you are doing with regard to navigation, Collision Regulations (the 'rules of the road'), tides, VHF protocol, etc., etc. That you are asking for info specific to this bit of water suggests to me that you don't yet have the knowledge and understanding required. If you had that, you'd know where/how to find it and, more importantly, be able to fully appreciate and understand the implications of what you were looking at when you had it (no to mention better appreciate how much you still don't know).

I suggest you enrol yourself on a RYA Dayskipper course, where you will learn the basics. This can be done at various commercial schools, yacht clubs or 'adult learning' establishments. This can be done online some places, but I think you will learn more, and more effectively, doing this in 'real life' classroom, not least from comparing notes, experiences and challenges with other students.

Thanks for the feedback and the vote of confidence that it's possible at 6 knots! This is definitely something I'm not rushing in to, it'll be in a year or two, I've got a lot to learn about navigation. I know this little boat fairly well so far, although I've only had it for a couple months I've been on many many trips out into the estuary and I know the running gear and electrics pretty intimately at this point. So far I've done a full rewire, engine mounts, all new hoses & water pump, seacocks, stern gland, skeg and lower rudder bearing...a fair bit.

There's quite a few things I haven't practiced much yet though - using the anchor, tying up to a buoy on a swinging mooring. drying out somewhere that isn't my mooring etc. I'm aware I need to go the RYA Powerboat Level 2 route to apply for an ICC as well, to boat on the continent legally. I've had no formal navigation training so far, just from books, had a look at the Day Skipper course and that's definitely on the cards too.

And yep, as mentioned I'll have a little get-out-of-trouble outboard on the back too, just in case!

(apologies for the slow replies, I'm waiting for post approval, guessing it's because I'm a new member)

 

[st599]

I'm aware I need to go the RYA Powerboat Level 2 route to apply for an ICC as well, to boat on the continent legally.

Powerboat level 2 will give you an ICC with a 10m LOA endorsement, your boat is 13, so you couldn't use that ICC to prove competence. (Also, France isn't a signatory to the ICC protocol - it doesn't legally have to accept an ICC)

 

[applebadger]

Powerboat level 2 will give you an ICC with a 10m LOA endorsement, your boat is 13, so you couldn't use that ICC to prove competence. (Also, France isn't a signatory to the ICC protocol - it doesn't legally have to accept an ICC)

Think you might have misunderstood my post - the 45’ narrowboat is staying firmly on the canals, it’s the 18’ Colvic which I intend to take across the channel, which is under 10m.

Interesting - I didn’t know France wasn’t signed up to the ICC, everyone I talked to in France said I needed to have it. Does that mean there’s another way to prove competence?

 

[dunedin]

Make sure you check up on the latest rules for taking boats to and from France. Now that we are no longer EU there is online paperwork you need to complete pre departure and on arrival in both directions.
Not too difficult if do research - plenty already on here. But don't just set off without doing so.

PS Lots of other stuff on VAT but won't be an issue foryou with a short stay (only after 18 months stay)

 

[applebadger]

Make sure you check up on the latest rules for taking boats to and from France. Now that we are no longer EU there is online paperwork you need to complete pre departure and on arrival in both directions.
Not too difficult if do research - plenty already on here. But don't just set off without doing so.

PS Lots of other stuff on VAT but won't be an issue foryou with a short stay (only after 18 months stay)

Thanks, yep I've found plenty of info on that on the RYA site with some good links. https://www.rya.org.uk/knowledge/abroad/country-specific-advice/france

Currently going through the process of getting it on the SSR; as I paid cash for it off some guy who I can no longer get hold of, a bill of sale might be difficult! Apparently they're helpful on the phone so I'll give them a call and see what's doable.

 

[Tranona]

Think you might have misunderstood my post - the 45’ narrowboat is staying firmly on the canals, it’s the 18’ Colvic which I intend to take across the channel, which is under 10m.

Interesting - I didn’t know France wasn’t signed up to the ICC, everyone I talked to in France said I needed to have it. Does that mean there’s another way to prove competence?

You don't really need it just to hop along the French coast, but you do if you go into most of the inland waterways. The ICC is the route to get a CEVNI endorsement which is required for inland waterways. You get that with a relatively simple on line test of knowledge of the waterways rules. The combination of the two certificates meets the CEVNI requirements.

 

[applebadger]

You don't really need it just to hop along the French coast, but you do if you go into most of the inland waterways. The ICC is the route to get a CEVNI endorsement which is required for inland waterways. You get that with a relatively simple on line test of knowledge of the waterways rules. The combination of the two certificates meets the CEVNI requirements.

Got it now, thanks - the link between the CEVNI, ICC and first getting the RYA Powerboat Level 2 wasn't clear before even after a fair bit of reading, makes sense now.

 

[Alicatt]

Got it now, thanks - the link between the CEVNI, ICC and first getting the RYA Powerboat Level 2 wasn't clear before even after a fair bit of reading, makes sense now.

I did the CEVNI and powerboat 2 online along with the VHF Short Range Certificate, then when at the school doing the practical I had the CEVNI ready for sending off to get the ICC with the PB2, at the end of the PB2 course I did the practical for the VHF and as a bonus my wife got to do "the other station" part so she got some training on how to use the radio as well.

There is only a little theory with the PB2

Get the PB2 and do the CEVNI and send off both together, saves money, if you do them separate then you have to pay twice, unless you are a member of the RYA then it is gratis.

 

[applebadger]

I did the CEVNI and powerboat 2 online along with the VHF Short Range Certificate, then when at the school doing the practical I had the CEVNI ready for sending off to get the ICC with the PB2, at the end of the PB2 course I did the practical for the VHF and as a bonus my wife got to do "the other station" part so she got some training on how to use the radio as well.

There is only a little theory with the PB2

Get the PB2 and do the CEVNI and send off both together, saves money, if you do them separate then you have to pay twice, unless you are a member of the RYA then it is gratis.

Thanks, great to hear it from someone who's done the whole process, that order of things makes sense. I've already got the VHF SRC so one less thing to organise!

 

[NO Felice]

Take care for good weather situation and study the tides and forecast.

Last summer I had the pleasure to cross the channel with our Cruising Club Yacht, a Trader 45, fully equiped for ocean and offshore, 2x 400hp engines. The voyage from Calais to Dover was a pleasant trip: 3 hours / around 9/10 knots / sunshine ... NO wind ... NO swell ... NO waves ... low traffic on a sunday morning.

But this is not the usual situation: You have to be prepared for some other situations: wind - rain - fog - sea current - heavy traffic. Look for a very good weather situation and forecast for your cruise to France. And by the ney UK/EU regulations you have to fill in some paperwork for the customs and submitt online.

 

[paulbrown22]

Hi all. I live on a 45' narrowboat which I've taken to places a narrowboat probably shouldn't have been to on the tidal Thames. I wanted to go further so I recently bought a little 1976 18' Colvic Watson which the previous owner had taken the mast and sails off...so it's now a slow displacement motor cruiser. Purchase price was probably less than a service on a 'proper' nice big dual engined boat!

Did a fair bit of work on the 20hp Volvo Penta inboard (fitted in the late 80s) and it now runs very well. Hull speed is around 6-7 kts, and it seems to cruise at 3/4 throttle at around 6 knots. It's moored in Greenwich on the Thames, and I've taken it as far as Queenborough and Leigh-on-sea which I'm now reasonably confident with, lots of fun! Punching the flood tide outbound from Greenwich it'll make 3kts. It's got a bracket for an auxiliary outboard and I intend to fit a little 10hp 2 stroke Mariner or similar.

Navigating, buoys, markers, accounting for tides and everything else is all still relatively new to me, I'm still learning! It has an old but functional Raymarine plotter as a backup, but I've been using an iPad with Savvy Navvy most of the time. I also have paper charts of the estuary, and know the basics of how to read and plot a course.

However, after reading a few threads on here, I seem to have caught the bug to want to cross the Channel. My ex partner used to have a flat in Calais so I know the town and marina fairly well, so it seems like a natural destination. From what I've read, doing a hop from Greenwich to Ramsgate and then Ramsgate to Calais in a good window of weather seems to be a proven route.

First thing I'd like to ask is if crossing the channel in a boat which does 6knts is a daft idea or not, people seem to have done similar motoring in sailing craft in around 6-7 hours - is this realistic?

Second thing is where a good resource for learning about navigating the Channel, and all the bits of info specific to this bit of water...how the sandbanks shift, the traffic separation, ferry routes to avoid, VHF channels, procedure on arrival, forms to fill in, paperwork etc. Gleaned a bit of info from various sites but haven't found anything decent so far.

Thanks!

That's the "new" boat the came to Mudlarks jetty a few weeks ago? I have my Saga 26 HT just up the river on a GYC mooring.

I don't know if you're already a GYC member, but if not worth looking at as Thames Active (also on site at GYC) will then give you a good discount on a Powerboat Level 2 course, and we run Day Skipper Theory at the club too, and various talks on channel crossing.

 

[applebadger]

That's the "new" boat the came to Mudlarks jetty a few weeks ago? I have my Saga 26 HT just up the river on a GYC mooring.

I don't know if you're already a GYC member, but if not worth looking at as Thames Active (also on site at GYC) will then give you a good discount on a Powerboat Level 2 course, and we run Day Skipper Theory at the club too, and various talks on channel crossing.

Yep that’s the one, the little blue boat! Small world. I looked at the all tide swinging moorings at the GYC but decided that a drying pontoon mooring is better for me - I enjoy working on the boat in my spare time, and pontoon access makes things so much easier.

I’m not a GYC member as I assumed you needed to have a boat there - thanks for the tip, I’ll join! Been looking at the courses offered by Thames Active already as it’s so close. There’s a few dates in late Nov I can do so I’ll join the club and get booked on it.

 

[paulbrown22]

Yep that’s the one, the little blue boat! Small world. I looked at the all tide swinging moorings at the GYC but decided that a drying pontoon mooring is better for me - I enjoy working on the boat in my spare time, and pontoon access makes things so much easier.

I’m not a GYC member as I assumed you needed to have a boat there - thanks for the tip, I’ll join! Been looking at the courses offered by Thames Active already as it’s so close. There’s a few dates in late Nov I can do so I’ll join the club and get booked on it.

The walk ashore access would be lovely! Mine is on one of the floating pontoons, but with the club tenders it's not too much of a faff to get to. Definitely worth joining - you don't need to have a boat on station at GYC, but as a member could then choose to use e.g. the yard facilities/Wise lifter at member's rates, discounted training courses, use the club pontoon, bar/restaurant, etc

 

[applebadger]

The walk ashore access would be lovely! Mine is on one of the floating pontoons, but with the club tenders it's not too much of a faff to get to. Definitely worth joining - you don't need to have a boat on station at GYC, but as a member could then choose to use e.g. the yard facilities/Wise lifter at member's rates, discounted training courses, use the club pontoon, bar/restaurant, etc

Thanks for the info, much appreciated, the yard facilities and lift are definitely attractive - saves going round the corner to South Dock! I've filled in the form and will send off tomorrow.

 

[paulbrown22]

Thanks for the info, much appreciated, the yard facilities and lift are definitely attractive - saves going round the corner to South Dock! I've filled in the form and will send off tomorrow.

Excellent, I look forward to meeting you there soon.

Saves going round the corner, and last time I looked the yard/lift costs at GYC are a fraction of South Dock! I'm sure Jennie the membership secretary will be in touch as soon as you've sent the forms off to get things rolling.