Charter ownership schemes

[MadMac]

I am thinking of going this route for my next boat , there seems to be two schools of thought . One you give your pride and joy to Sunsail or similar for five years and they trash it for you. And two; after five years you end up with a well maintained boat , paid for and it hasnt cost you a bean. The truth is in there somewhere! Has anyone here actually done it? What are the pitfalls, would you do it again?

Fair winds

Mad Mac.

 

[JeremyF]

If its a good deal for the provider of free Capex to Sunsail, I'm sure Sunsail will have lots of happy reference suppliers!

Jimi, a regular poster here, tried this. Ask him.


Jeremy Flynn

 

[Guest]

Post deleted by danfoley

 

[bedouin]

The sailing equivalent of timeshare

This has been covered several times before. I considered this semi-seriously a couple of years ago, but decided against it.

The "hasn't cost you a bean" is totally wrong. By the time you've factored in either the cost of borrowing the money, or the lost income from the money, the figures look a lot less attractive.

IMHO the deciding factor is whether you can use all the free sailing that is available - the figures only look acceptable if you factor in that at a semi-commercial rate.

 

[MadMac]

Re: The sailing equivalent of timeshare

Where has it been covered before? the search facility produced nothing on this subject.

 

[bedouin]

Re: The sailing equivalent of timeshare

The last time was in March this year - search Scuttlebutt for a thread entitled "Charter management" started by Jimi 03/03/2002.

It has also been covered earlier - but that might have been when the forum was in its old form (no archives!)

 

[steve_cronin]

Ring me or email me.......

as we are curently doing this with a Bavaria 42 in Greece.

It works fine (up to now!) but if I give you my views on this BB it will attract contradictions from people with no personal knowledge. I am perfectly prepared to give you all the benefit of our personal experiences but not to enter into a debate or arguement with others. I am a professional in finance so have looked into all aspects and don't want to get involved in a "Yes it is/No it isn't" situation. Is that unreasonable?

Steve Cronin

Send a personal message & I'll respond

 

[rogerroger]

Re: Ring me or email me.......

Isn't the whole point of the forum to exchange views ? And if you're happy with the way you've chosen to buy a yacht why would you care if someone gives views contradictory to your own ? everyone's different after all...

This forum would be very empty and dull if everyone jsut PM / emailed answers the whole time.


/forums/images/icons/cool.gif Roger Holden /forums/images/icons/cool.gif
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.first-magnitude.co.uk>First Magnitude</A>

 

[andy_wilson]

Expect chartering to cover the cost of the loan (or equivalent lost income on capital employed), OR to cover the annual cost, not both.

If you are self-employed and VAT registered then re-claiming VAT on % Bona Fide business use helps the project and re-claiming capital allowances on your inversment can be ever so slightly useful.... 40 % first year (Who said Gordon Brown never did anything for sailors?) on a £100,000 yacht is a £40,000 earnings tax break!

That's the real benefit.

Expect to have to buy a floating caravan with loads of cabins and no real passage-making capability, because thats what the market demands.

I bought a Westerly that was marketed by a niche charter operato, an arrangement which worked well for a couple of seasons. Now we are exploring Britain in a well found, and very well equipped yacht, which is no longer chartered.

Expect your yacht to recieve some punishment. Aspire has been built and rigged to be bomb proof but still bits of trim come adrift, cupboard latches in splinters, mainsheet burst, goosneck burst, sails torn etc. Not to mention blocked heads, lost dinghy oars, lost fenders, gallons of water down the hatch, spills on the upholstery, bits and pieces going missing (glasses, charts, tide tables, plotter). Then there is the inevitable go faster stripes down the hull side (about 2 mm deep and a metre long), rope burn grooves around the cockpit camings, bent stanchions c/w crazed gel coat.......

It pays not to become too attached to your investment!

Finally, it does not take the Brain of Britain to realize why charter operators do not generally purchase ther own vessels. It doesn't add up, and those who have tried have often (spectacularly) failed.

They rely upon a steady stream of punters who cannot (or choose not to) fully fund their own boats, but who are happy with a yacht which has limited real sailing ability, for instance because they will marina hop in good weather and do not anticipate any extended passages. This is the stuff charter management programms are generally made of.

And there lies the main problem. When a customer has booked your yacht for a week, and the weathers lousy, one of several things occur.

1. They are competent and experienced, and thus sail it sympathetically, but still things break, people get flung across expansive cabins, not a lot of water is shipped.

2. They are beginners (and yes, total beginners will be let out on your boat) or relatively inexperienced. The boat takes a hammering, the crew take a hammering, Hopefully no hands are lost.

3. They stick the nose out of the river and frighten themselves to death (Usually under full sail), and spend the rest of the week motoring, thus landing someone (you) with an early oil change bill.

Synical? Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. At least my t-shirt didn't say 'Ex-charter yacht for sail, sligthly worn but oft repaired, just the same as the other 20 that have come onto the market this month'.

 

[andy_wilson]

Most unreasonable

Must be a different Steve Cronin!

 

[Twister_Ken]

Impeccable logic

> Why not just purchase one of the dozens of pre-deteriorated boats they already have for sale on behalf of other owners that joined the plan 5 years ago?<

I can't see any holes in that argument!

 

[steve_cronin]

IT\'S A FREE WORLD BUD....

YOU DO THINGS YOUR WAY & I'LL DO THEM MINE. WON'T BE SHARING MY FINANCIAL ARRANGEMENTS ON THE MODERN EQUIVALENT OF CB RADIO, ANYTIME!

Steve Cronin

 

[JeremyF]

Re: IT\'S A FREE WORLD BUD....

No need to shout Steve!

If you do what you have done, and know that you will only get out to Greece for 4-6 weeks a year, it makes sense to do timeshare, as its should be cheaper than chartering each time. Also, if like timeshare, you can swap locations, you can also get cruising in the Caribbean. At the end of the 3 or 5 years, I guess you sell the boat and take out a new timeshare contract. Its just a way of buying a 'book of tickets' for a number of years of chartering.

This is very different from using the scheme to buy a boat that eventually becomes yours for your 100% use. Thats where I think the scheme falls down.
If you know its going to become yours, the whole issue of how its looked after becomes a major issue, and source of much pain. As suggested earlier, fractional ownership or buying one at the end of the scheme is surely the way forward. With the former, at least you know who's using the boat. With the latter, you know the condition of what you are buying, and its never been 'yours' when shiny and new.




Jeremy Flynn

 

[steve_cronin]

Timeshare?

No I havn't taken on a timeshare.

AS to the condition of the boat throughout the charter management period, ours has only suffered a bent stanchion (& that was me!) which was replaced immediately. I use the boat for as much time as I did when I owned one ransomed off to MDL at £5000 pa for a place to keep it. She is kept in excellent condition, cleaned throughout at least once a fortnight. I am not responsible for insurance, antifouling, sails, running repairs & replacements, engine maintenance(except when it falls due during my usage) nor mooring costs. We are in the Ionian this season (our choice) so engine use will be higher but the total hours to date are surprisingly low. We shalln't keep her on management for the whole available term as the cash amount required to be made should be accumulated within three years.

We are on good relations with the guys (& gals) who manage her and the boat is customised with our own bits & pieces as well as several extra pieces of equipment we have bought. If she's free within 28 days of my ringing I can reserve her without it coming out of my guaranteed use allocation.

There is a minimum standard of equipment & boat condition which must be honoured when we take her back and all machinery, rigging & electrics will receive a complete overhaul from the appropriate local specialists to my satisfaction.

I know several owners either further into the scheme or newer to it. None has so far been dissatisfied even one guy from Denmark who bought, put his boat on management and only set eyes on her for the first time three years later!

I had a pristine seven year old Hunter 30 taking up space in Port Hamble, costing me a packet and used only one weekend in three when we would find things like the roller reefing bearings seized due to lack of use, the diesel water seperator full of crud and the boat in need of a good wash before we could use her.

There are many big ex-charter boats for sale in Greece but this is because the top end of the market (Esp. Germans & Italians) demands newish (<5yo) boats not because people have been left with pups.

Steve Cronin