Changing Ferrari for a Motor Boat but Absolutely Clueless! Please Advise

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Pyrenean Mountain Dog

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Dear All

It had always been a dream of mine to own a Ferrari - After much hard work and saving, I finally managed to buy one. I've had the car a while now and it's actually gone up in value, which of course is a good thing and while I still love it, I'm now keen to move on to my ultimate dream, which is to own my own motor boat.

I can sell the car and I also have some additional savings which will enable me to spend somewhere between £250 - £400k, the questions are these:

Do I go for an older, well cared for larger boat, or a smaller newer one? I've seen that you can get an older 64ft boat at the top end of my budget, or a newer say 45-50ft example but I don't know which way to go.

Is it a lot more difficult to navigate a larger vessel?

And at what size does mooring become difficult?

Aside from the obvious, that being of course that an older, larger boat will be more dated and worn, what are the other disadvantages?

Also, does it really cost a lot more to run a 64ft boat over say a 50ft boat?

I hear people say allow 10% per annum running costs - Is that just based on cost new, or does the same carry across to the cost of a used boat - Of course, a new boat may cost £1 million, whereas a used one may be less than half that..... So I don't know exactly what to expect.

So in short, what I really want to know, is if you had a budget of £250 - £400k would you:

Spend at the lower end of your budget on a good, older, well cared for smaller boat?

Spend towards the top of your budget on a newer, lower miles, more reliable smaller modern boat?

Or, would you spend all your budget and go as large and as comfortable boat as possible, even if that means looking at something 10+ years old?

Any advice that anyone can give, to help point me in the right direction would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks

Allister
 
Lots of questions and no doubt you'll get all sorts of conflicting advice! A couple of fairly important bits of info needed from you, firstly where do you intend keeping the boat and secondly, what do you foresee as being the main use for it, i.e. Floating apartment, long distance cruiser etc etc?

An older boat does not necessarily mean more use as lots of them just sit there not being used, although that in itself can be a bad thing, so generalizations are fairly meaningless. I'd suggest you compile a checklist of what's important to you and then start looking at what's available that has what's on your list. If possible try and get out on a few boats to get a feel for what you really want.
Exciting times, enjoy the search and do let us know how you get on.
 
Welcome to the forum Allister. Exciting and fun times ahead for you I hope and you've come to the right place for some advice.

My questions to you are - what's more important, speed or accommodation (number of cabins / berths)? Do you want stress free ownership or are you happy tinkering? Also, do you want to preserve your capital or are you happy losing some of it in depreciation?
 
I bought a few new boats, 1st couple did pretty well trading up so little depreciation, last one I stole as the dealer was getting out of the brand in the UK, around 50% discount. I have still lost a further 50% since then, although thankfully 50% of not the huge amount that I did consider spending at the time.
There are loads of little used very good boats out there at very good prices, so if your not in the market to give the Ferrari away, go late used, 40-50 ft. (best combo of comfort & ease of mooring)
Where will you keep it, & what sort of boating appeals, family weekend + longer, boy racer etc ?
What Ferrari is it, have half a mind to look at the California in just over a year, or a 911, or an Aston, Jag xfr is great but you only live once !!!
 
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Welcome to the forum. Best of luck in your hunt for a boat as has been said you will get many different opinions. Is a bigger boat harder to navigate? No its the same as any size boat, however you may have more restrictions on where you can go and get but at the size you are talking about not many. A bigger boat may be more difficult to helm and berth (park) however with newer boats they have so many gizmos on them they can almost park themselves. Just be aware there are very very few boats that will not depreciate it's just about at what rate they do it at. Although you do sometimes 20 year old boats going for close to what they have been bought. Not factoring inflation etc. Personally it's normally better to go for a newer boat, however many boats do not have many engine hours or much use, so don't get put of by older boats. It took me a year of window shopping for my boat (much smaller and a fraction of the budget you have) when I actually started seriously looking it took less than 6 weeks to buy. Also don't forget to get some courses under your belt. Its a lot of money you are investing so make sure that you know how to handle it. Maybe you could go for a smaller boat to start of with, see if you like it and then trade up if you do. To a point the size does not matter (I keep telling my better half this as well?) I better everyone enjoys getting out on their boat and at some stage I suppose most of us get boat envy, but that's just the nature of the beast. Either way have great fun and enjoy your hunt
 
Like others on here I have been through a similar process to you, my very best advice is hold ya nerve and don't rush in for at least three to six months, boats can take a very long time to sell if you get it wrong, and many do get it wrong.
When I got into boating I wanted a small family cruiser, then thought I wanted something fast and then thought I wanted a fly bridge, none of those decisions were wrong but then none were fully correct either, it's taken five years and a bit of wheeler dealing to end up in the right place for us as a family. You should consider a charter for year one , you could charter a couple of different boats of different types, and then in year two make an informed decision, it may well save you a lot of money and time, boat shows are fun but it is easy to get sucked in to buying wrong!!!!!
 
Dear All

Firstly thank you each and everyone for taking the time to reply.

Interesting what longjohnsilver says about boats not really going anywhere, not necessarily being a good thing. I hadn't thought about that but thinking about it now, if a boat's standing in water and the engines and parts aren't moving, I can understand why this could create problems.

In answer to some of the questions raised:

Firstly, I think we'd look at keeping the boat in the South of France or Northern Italy (not the most expensive parts). The boat will be primarily for my wife and I, we chose not to have children, so number of cabins is not that important - That said, we would like a reasonable feeling of space on board, particularly within the living areas.

If I were to try and describe exactly what we'd like to get from a boat - It would probably consist largely of taking the boat out of the marina, stoping off in a small cove, or on the edge of the coast and settling there for a couple of days, relaxing, eating, enjoying the peace, tranquility and views of the coast, moving around a little within a small area but nothing too long distance - That's pretty much it. - Probably best summed up as a short distance floating apartment.

We're not particularly interested in speeding about, so I don't think anything too sporty or high powered - Just something calm and relaxing. I'm thinking probably something with a flybridge - Although please let me know if these have considerable disadvantages?

I think losing money will no doubt be inevitable, although if I can get the choice of boat right first time, hopefully I can avoid any loss associated with a future change.

Would prefer relatively stress free ownership, I'm not really one for tinkering, if a fuse blows or something breaks in our house, it's usually my wife who fixes it!

With regards to the Ferrari that I bought, it's an F430 Spider (Rosso Corsa / Crema Leather) but most importantly it's the last model made with the traditional gated manual gearbox, all are now flappy paddle and sadly Ferrari will not be making anymore manuals in the future - Hence the interest from collectors, plus only around 120 UK RHD cars were made. I do love the car but feel a boat would give more pleasure.

Thank you once again to all for your replies, your knowledge is helpful, valuable and greatly appreciated.

Allister
 
Hi Allister, welcome to the forum from me also. In reply to your various questions I would say the following

A Ferrari is easy to sell and won't depreciate much if at all as you have pointed out. A boat is the total opposite, particularly in today's depressed market. A boat of the kind of value you are talking about, even a secondhand one, will cost you tens of thousands in depreciation and be far more difficult to sell when you want out. So given the fact that you are a newbie and you won't find out whether you (and your family) actually like boating until you own a boat, you need to buy one which will minimise the depreciation and be as easy as possible to get out of it. For that reason, IMHO you should be thinking about spending an amount of money at the lower end of your budget or even less than that

As to what type of boat but assuming you are planning to use your boat in the UK, in order to make it easier to resell, try to look only at popular models from popular UK manufacturers like Princess and Sunseeker or maybe Fairline (they've gone bust recently so values may be a little uncertain for a while) or possibly Sealine

The next consideration is that you have no experience of maintaining a boat. All boats are a collection of proprietary components any one of which could go wrong at any time and the older the boat, generally speaking, the more problems will occur. So that points to buying a boat which is newer rather than older

The balance you have to strike is between buying a boat which is a few years old such that the earlier steeper part of its depreciation has already been done but not so old that you risk buying something which could give you major problems immediately. The other potential issue is that if you find you enjoy boating, you will probably want to trade up fairly quickly, as many people do after they discover what they really want from a boat which again points to buying a boat which is easier to resell

So if I was in your position, I would look to spend no more than £250k on a 5-8yr old boat in the 40-50ft range with a view to going to a more expensive larger boat if you find you enjoy it. If you like the idea of a flybridge boat then maybe have a look at the Princess 42/45/50 models
 
I ,ve still a Ferrari you don,t need to sell it - enjoy both ?
I would say have a google of Itama 40. 200-250 € should get you into imho the Ferrari of boat world
SoF -you will need really to buy a berth -depends in the width /beam My berth was € 200K ( could have bought anew 458 for that :)
Just to give you an idea of costs involved ( for MBY forum guys -Ferrari owners often whingeing over service costs -they,ve got no idea :cool:)
Here's an extract from CS Ferrari forum "toys" section

I, ve got one of these - v close modal - bit older and keep in the South of France .
Gobbles 200 L/hr @32 Knots cruise -Top speed is 45 mph . Spend 8 weeks of so throuout the summer blatting around the Med.Makes me smile when folks on here whine about Ferrari servicing .
This babe need 68L of oil to change ,air filters are €150 a pop . Oil filters €100 and fuel (8) €500 in all .
Then a geny and annual anti foul (€300 for the paint) Anodes €200 -
Then BOAT =Blow another thousand - new batt charger €1000 ,cockpit fridge €900 this year .
Gearbox hydraulic pipes + fittings € 2000
That's just a typical year .
Running a Ferrari is chicken feed in comparison .
https://vimeo.com/138100176
 
Call me biased, but as the very happy owner of an Absolute, I would have a look at what is on offer from them & similar as I believe they are popular where you are planning to base yourself. Only problem I had was lifting teak on the swim platform (which at a year old the manufacturer didn't want to know about) (Another reason for going nearly new as the bugs have hopefully been fixed at someone else's expense & manufacturer warranties are sometimes, in my experience at least not worth an awful lot)
We do what sounds like the same sort of boating as you plan but in the UK. As Mike says, make sure you leave room to get out with as little financial damage as possible if you do find its not for you. Ask the forum (carefully in case someone nicks your bargain) for likely depreciation rates on a number of makes including the one you are interested in when you find it, & go slow, there are plenty out there of all makes, so if a good one does go, there will be another, probably better, along soon. Good luck !
 
If you want to spend a few days at anchor then a flybridge is a good choice. If you want to be in the Med then a med boat makes sense as it is more likely to have med spec (A/C and generator) and will save transport costs. If you want to keep it in the SoF then look for French or Spanish boats. For a couple something like this would make sense http://www.yachtworld.co.uk/boats/2007/Fairline-Phantom-50-2525949/Spain#.Voa9graLTIU. If you speak to James Blackburn (the dealer) he should give you an honest view of the boats condition to save you a wasted trip. Other makes worth considering are Princess, Sunseeker, Azimut and Ferretti. Its also worth calling the Barke brothers (boats.co.uk) as they have a good level of stock and an outlet in Mallorca. They'd probably take your Fezza in p/ex too.
 
I would suggest a few days out with Solitaire or John Mendez to learn how boats handle and get an idea of what different boat styles offer.

64' is a lot of boat for anyone to handle, but i guess small beer in the Med. On the South coast anything above 45' means pre-planning / booking every destination or you just won't get a berth, I assume with Med sailing is that most of it is done at anchor when visiting places, so less of a restriction.

The 10% rule of thumb is a fairly good guide, based upon what you pay for it. A new boat will likely take an immediate hit because it is new, and there will always be post build snags to resolve, whereas a well used and cared for 3 - 5 year old will have had these issues attended to.
 
You should consider buying a boat with a rental berth which can be transferred to the new owner. This is usually the case (despite moves to outlaw the practice). A rental berth is almost certainly considerably better value than buying a berth lease - most of which will expire in the next 5-10 years time.

Trying to find a permanent berth in France is otherwise rather difficult at the moment. For rentals, waiting lists are essentially infinite and not much choice for buying either.

Otherwise you can try risking just turning up and taking a berth for a boat on passage. Once you are in it is easier to stay. However you will be paying weekly rates which will be much more expensive than the annual rental.
 
superheat6k said:
The 10% rule of thumb is a fairly good guide, based upon what you pay for it. A new boat will likely take an immediate hit because it is new, and there will always be post build snags to resolve, whereas a well used and cared for 3 - 5 year old will have had these issues attended to.
Click to expand...

I'm not a fan of that 10% rule of thumb. An older cheaper boat the same length and type of a newer more expensive one will not cost the same to run. I'm never even sure what the 10% is supposed to include.

Far easier to get someone knowledgeable here to give an estimate of the depreciation, mooring, maintenance and fuel costs for a given type and size of boat.
 
A rental berth is almost certainly considerably better value than buying a berth lease
Click to expand...

Not sure id agree with the above statement, i'd guess it will vary from location to location , but i bought the lease for my berth in mallorca, and have effectively more than halved my mooring costs compared to renting the same mooring.
 
julians said:
Not sure id agree with the above statement, i'd guess it will vary from location to location , but i bought the lease for my berth in mallorca, and have effectively more than halved my mooring costs compared to renting the same mooring.
Click to expand...

Spain is different. And Mallorca even more so.

I don;t know how big a yacht Portofino has (it looks about 35ft), The going rate for an annual rental berth for that size in my bit of the South of France is about 2500 euros to 3500 euros per year depending on where. Usually this includes water and electricity. I pay less than 5000 Euros per year for my16m (I am 20m including bow sprit).

I doubt Portofino has more than 20 years lease and that works out to more than 10K per year. Probably there is a maintenance charge or electricity/water on top.

NB for berth rental, it is the LOA on the registration document which counts. I understand that with the SSR there is some flexibility on what you put down for LOA ;-)
 
Hi Allister. Exciting times! I think the search for the right boat, weighing up all the options, viewing the various makes and models and layouts is almost as much fun as owning it! Getting sound advice is absolutely crucial of course, particularly if this is your first boat owning experience. You are getting very good pointers on here already... but of course there will be differing perspectives. I spent 2014 seriously looking for a boat and took delivery of a 2007 Princess 58 in June this year. We started out looking for something around 50ft perhaps 2-5 years old. Although I see the attraction of a sparkling new boat out of the factory, and may do it one day.... Im personally in the 'previously enjoyed' camp when it comes to boat buying. We found plenty of lovingly maintained examples to choose from. We ended up going older than we had planned and slightly larger. We found an immaculate one owner boat that matched our needs almost perfectly and spent 50% of the budget! This approach only works if you are not hung up about the latest designs and materials of course, but its amazing what new upholstery, canopies and electronics will do for an older boat. We bought with a short 'used boat' warranty and I have to say that Princess Motor Yacht Sales (PMYS) sorted every little niggle out splendidly, leaving me with a 100% snag free boat with absolutely everything working perfectly. That's not always a 'given' with a new boat fresh out of the yard.

Other thoughts (generally repeating what others have already said);

Make sure the reality matches the dream before you take the plunge! Get out with others or charter for a week or so (if you haven't already). I have seen some make a large investment in a boat only to find that the experience was not what they thought it would be. Handling was more difficult and stressful than expected/wife incurably seasick the minute she stepped on board/costs way way higher than expected... etc etc As Deleted User pointed out, its nowhere near as easy to sell a boat as it is to buy one, and depreciation is relentless. Getting it wrong will doubtless be expensive.

On the question of costs, Portofino is spot on, running and properly maintaining a Motor Boat can make the cost of owning fancy Italian cars look like chicken feed, particularly if the car is an appreciating investment! (I do do both). Boating is a much happier experience with eyes open and a generous annual budget which you fully expect to spend!

Do get some instruction and try handling a 50-60 footer before you buy one. Make sure you and SWMBO are both comfortable with it. (I would guess that most of us have worked up in size increments over the years. I imagine I would find jumping on a 60 footer as my first boat quite daunting).

Good luck with the search

Rick
 
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