Changing Ferrari for a Motor Boat but Absolutely Clueless! Please Advise

[westernman]

From there, assuming we enjoy what we've experienced, the excitement of boat hunting can begin! (based on advice given, will probably look around 40-45ft, 5-7 years old)

If you decide you want to keep a boat in France, consider buying a boat which comes with an annual rental berth. (Marked as "avec place de port" in the adverts). It is about the only way to get an annual rental down here at the moment - and it is a lot cheaper than buying a lease on a berth which will run out in a few years time.

Otherwise annual rental berths are available in Spain - but considerably more expensive than in France.

If you are prepared to pay Solent prices you can do short term rentals and may be move around a bit. All French ports have significant capacity for visitors - you can often stay for a year at a time, but only by paying the monthly rate. The monthly rate will work out to a total cost of about 3x the yearly one.

Here are some examples of rates:-

http://www.portcamargue.com/tarifs-forfaits-annuels.html
http://www.port-frontignan.fr/le-port/les-tarifs-annuels-2014 (could not find 2016)
http://www.leucate-port.fr/images/docs/tarifs/Tarifs_Anneaux_2016.pdf

Might be worth getting your name onto the waiting list for all the ports you might be interested in now.

 

[Pyrenean Mountain Dog]

But the best advantage of a Flybridge in the Med is the extra space that you get.

Also - take a long look at the boats that are out there.
When I'm away (either in the marina or away on anchor), I like to be comfortable so space is very important.
Boat builders tend to cram cabins in because thats what people think they want.
With a small family (just you and your wife plus visitors) you might not need lots of accommodation - IMO, extra space would be more useful.
For example, our boat is big enough to have had 4 cabins when she was designed but in fact she only has 3 cabins plus the crews cabin.
This means that there is enough space for us and our guests to spread out.
Each cabin has its own bathroom so there is loads of space and you don't get on top of each other.
There is a danger when spending lots of time on a boat of being too cramped and ending up "camping" instead of "living" (especially if you are away from home in the Med for example).
All this might lead to you and your wife not enjoying the whole boating experience.

In your first post, you said that "It would probably consist largely of taking the boat out of the marina, stoping off in a small cove, or on the edge of the coast and settling there for a couple of days, relaxing, eating, enjoying the peace, tranquility and views of the coast, moving around a little within a small area but nothing too long distance"
You have come to the right forum -thats what we all want!!!

BTW - Crew cabins on sub 20m boats hardly ever get used for crew - in fact they are mostly used for storage.

A trip to the London Boat show next week will show you some of the new designs that are about but I suggest that you take Deleted User's advice and then look at the used market.

Good luck

EDIT - just another plug for Flybridge boats.
On ours, we have three entertainment/party areas - inside (saloon/lounge area) - outside (cockpit area) - and the flybridge itself (often flybridge boats will have BBQs etc up there as well)

I like what you're saying..... and definitely agree about the getting as much space on the boat for the size of vessel we can manage. You're absolutely right, if my wife (and I actually) feel like we're camping, it simply won't work for us.

Thank you for your interesting comments - As you also point, we have got tickets for the London Boat Show so will be there looking for size and vessel type ideas.

Many thanks

Allister

 

[Pyrenean Mountain Dog]

If you decide you want to keep a boat in France, consider buying a boat which comes with an annual rental berth. (Marked as "avec place de port" in the adverts). It is about the only way to get an annual rental down here at the moment - and it is a lot cheaper than buying a lease on a berth which will run out in a few years time.

Otherwise annual rental berths are available in Spain - but considerably more expensive than in France.

If you are prepared to pay Solent prices you can do short term rentals and may be move around a bit. All French ports have significant capacity for visitors - you can often stay for a year at a time, but only by paying the monthly rate. The monthly rate will work out to a total cost of about 3x the yearly one.

Here are some examples of rates:-

http://www.portcamargue.com/tarifs-forfaits-annuels.html
http://www.port-frontignan.fr/le-port/les-tarifs-annuels-2014 (could not find 2016)
http://www.leucate-port.fr/images/docs/tarifs/Tarifs_Anneaux_2016.pdf

Might be worth getting your name onto the waiting list for all the ports you might be interested in now.

Thanks also for this valuable info Michael - I will investigate.

Many thanks

Allistetr

 

[Portofino]

Spain is different. And Mallorca even more so.

I don;t know how big a yacht Portofino has (it looks about 35ft), The going rate for an annual rental berth for that size in my bit of the South of France is about 2500 euros to 3500 euros per year depending on where. Usually this includes water and electricity. I pay less than 5000 Euros per year for my16m (I am 20m including bow sprit).

I doubt Portofino has more than 20 years lease and that works out to more than 10K per year. Probably there is a maintenance charge or electricity/water on top.

NB for berth rental, it is the LOA on the registration document which counts. I understand that with the SSR there is some flexibility on what you put down for LOA ;-)

Michael
It's a 14-55 M -48 ft Itama .
Lease expires in La Napoule 2029 ( just got a 2 nd 5 y extension )

To Alistair
Cote D Azur is a fab place to base a boat -lots of coves and few pretty islands + you can charter 1/2 days of every type
From "winner boats "@ La Napoule .will include "skipper "
Also at La Nap many concessionaires .Fr like Sunseeker and princess + more -so a good place to talk to dealers .
Another plus point plenty of land based entertainment all year round -if you want it .
It's an out door life so massive cockpit and huge sun pad ,some Binimi shade essential .
It can get windy too so sea keeping important .-get this wrong in boat choice and you will have a bumpy we ride .= miserable experiance .
Getting technical now it's the dead rise angle -wants to be as steep a possible over or v near 20 degrees.
That's the steepness of the Ve .
Prob with boat shows they coverage bottom 1/2 of the hull -so you cannot see the shape .
There's a trend from builders to pack as much in ,a kinda arms race like mid cabins in 40-50 ft range and ballooning the hull for more interior volume + flatter aft sections -shallow Ve or rubbish dead rise of say 15 degrees.
These shoebox hulls will slam and bounce about in a chop , .
Look great @ a boat show on dry land or tied up in the marina ,

Another nuance -the Aircon .
You will need this to kip at night in the summer .
There are two basic types -self contained units under bunks and sofars -these rattle and are noisey -agian you can not test this at a boat show .Cheaper to install
The Preffered option is to have a chiller fitted in the engine room with piped chilled water to air handlers in the cabin spaces .Costs a lot more to install .
My firstboat was a small Sunseeker and they organised an English speaking tutor "all in " for week in La Napoule .
40-50 ft you will be fine .
Gardiennarge ? -when you are away -there is plenty of little Co,s that specialise in Looking after it -so that € cost needs factoring in .
Whisper quiet

 

[westernman]

Michael
It's a 14-55 M -48 ft Itama .
Lease expires in La Napoule 2029 ( just got a 2 nd 5 y extension )

What is the charge per year (maintenance, electricity, water etc)?
Is this better/cheaper than simply doing a monthly rental through the year?

Just for info, the daily rate for the Vieux Port in Marseille works out to about 17K euros for 365 days for that size boat. (Counting 6 months low season and 6 months high season).

 

[Hurricane]

As you also point, we have got tickets for the London Boat Show so will be there looking for size and vessel type ideas.

Usually there is one evening at LIBS sponsored by the boat builders.
It is usually on a Thursday evening - in the past, a lot of us from these forums meet on that day and go to the evening drinks parties.
I need to check if it happening again this year - we usually go to the Princess party
If it is on again this year, it might be a good time to meet up with some of us.

EDIT
Yes - seems to be the Thursday evening see here
http://londonboatshow.com/Whats-On/New-for-2016/Party-Night

 

[Portofino]

What is the charge per year (maintenance, electricity, water etc)?
Is this better/cheaper than simply doing a monthly rental through the year?

Just for info, the daily rate for the Vieux Port in Marseille works out to about 17K euros for 365 days for that size boat. (Counting 6 months low season and 6 months high season).

As it stands now I think I,am €16k better off when the lease expires * .
Rents will rise every year until the end of 2029 making that €16 K bigger .
But most importantly is security -no one will evict me .
Another point is i can accurately predict what my berthing costs are up to 2029 *
Those who,s leases are due to expire soon ,I understand the council will allow the existing birth holders first refusal on the same place -buy they will open to the full force of market rents -law of supply /demand in the CdA -demand is greater than supply ?
Long term Rental berths -just turn up are vertually none existent in the CdA

* who,s to say the Mayor and our Co don,t extend the lease further ?

 

[lionelz]

Just as a general note does doing your day skipper etc in the med give you a tidal ticket? I thought it had do be done in tidal waters? I done my tickets in Gibraltar so you have the advantage of both tidal Atlantic or none tidal med. You can also get across to north Africa which is great too. I done mine on a prestige 46 so roughly the size of boat you are looking at will give you a good look at what you can get for your money. Also you can do the courses together it's also not a bad place to keep your boat if you wanted.

 

[RogerRat]

Usually there is one evening at LIBS sponsored by the boat builders.
It is usually on a Thursday evening - in the past, a lot of us from these forums meet on that day and go to the evening drinks parties.
I need to check if it happening again this year - we usually go to the Princess party
If it is on again this year, it might be a good time to meet up with some of us.

EDIT
Yes - seems to be the Thursday evening see here
http://londonboatshow.com/Whats-On/New-for-2016/Party-Night

Hi Mike,
Your point about no. of cabins versus space is so true. IMHO A so called 6 berth boat usually means:
2 for a week.
4 for a weekend
and 6-8 persons for the day. Which is why we looked for a '2' cabin version of the Azi 46. Which really worked out well.

Looking at the way this thread is developing, I think we may be seeing the old classics again:

Sports versus Fly
Shafts v Out-drives
Planing V Displacement....:ambivalence:

Might even see you at Libs. :encouragement:

Roger

 

[oldgit]

If by now you are feeling overwhelmed and confused by the above,welcome to boating.
This is a normal state of affairs.
However ,the sense of accomplishment at the end of your very first solo trip or the challenge of arriving safely at some new destination in your boat can never ever be matched by some mere car journey,no matter how exalted the transport.
You are in charge of your boat and the safety of all who are aboard,it can be challenging..
Boating is not for all but the rewards are worthwhile.

 

[Portofino]

2cv. Renault Cleo . BMW 520 d auto. Defender 90 , Ferrari 430 spider , ,Lotus exige .

" clueless about boats "

The above have more in common that not in common ,like wheel @ each corner , gears , doors , mirrors lights etc .
Depends what you want to do with them .
A Welch hill farmer will struggle with an Exige and soon realise perhaps the Defender was a better choice ?
Only the OP hopefully after visiting the SoF and looking arround ---- -chartering will realised what type of boat will suit best .

Ps if the Welch hill farmer turns up on a track day in a defender ------- and wants to do more

 

[Pyrenean Mountain Dog]

Usually there is one evening at LIBS sponsored by the boat builders.
It is usually on a Thursday evening - in the past, a lot of us from these forums meet on that day and go to the evening drinks parties.
I need to check if it happening again this year - we usually go to the Princess party
If it is on again this year, it might be a good time to meet up with some of us.

EDIT
Yes - seems to be the Thursday evening see here
http://londonboatshow.com/Whats-On/New-for-2016/Party-Night

Morning Hurricane

Thank you for the very kind offer and heads up on that - Sounds like fun and would have been good to have a proper chat with other helpful boat owners. Unfortunately as things stand at the moment, it looks like the Friday when we will be going to the show. Thank you once again for mentioning it though.

Best wishes

Allister

 

[Seastoke]

Allister we have a 36ft fly and dream of a new boat maybe bigger ,with your budget there is an aray of choice ,i also agree you do the courses but do them with swmbo so you are in it together all the way and can bring you closer together .good luck.roy

 

[SammyB]

,i also agree you do the courses but do them with swmbo so you are in it together all the way and can bring you closer together [/QUOTE]

I agree we have taken our courses together in BSM with Phil at Oceanpro( Non Tidal) and have had some really memorable experiences as well as learning a huge amount. One thing I will add is that you can really become addicted to Boating quite quickly so be prepared.
Good luck
Sammyb

 

[Pyrenean Mountain Dog]

Michael
It's a 14-55 M -48 ft Itama .
Lease expires in La Napoule 2029 ( just got a 2 nd 5 y extension )

To Alistair
Cote D Azur is a fab place to base a boat -lots of coves and few pretty islands + you can charter 1/2 days of every type
From "winner boats "@ La Napoule .will include "skipper "
Also at La Nap many concessionaires .Fr like Sunseeker and princess + more -so a good place to talk to dealers .
Another plus point plenty of land based entertainment all year round -if you want it .
It's an out door life so massive cockpit and huge sun pad ,some Binimi shade essential .
It can get windy too so sea keeping important .-get this wrong in boat choice and you will have a bumpy we ride .= miserable experiance .
Getting technical now it's the dead rise angle -wants to be as steep a possible over or v near 20 degrees.
That's the steepness of the Ve .
Prob with boat shows they coverage bottom 1/2 of the hull -so you cannot see the shape .
There's a trend from builders to pack as much in ,a kinda arms race like mid cabins in 40-50 ft range and ballooning the hull for more interior volume + flatter aft sections -shallow Ve or rubbish dead rise of say 15 degrees.
These shoebox hulls will slam and bounce about in a chop , .
Look great @ a boat show on dry land or tied up in the marina ,

Another nuance -the Aircon .
You will need this to kip at night in the summer .
There are two basic types -self contained units under bunks and sofars -these rattle and are noisey -agian you can not test this at a boat show .Cheaper to install
The Preffered option is to have a chiller fitted in the engine room with piped chilled water to air handlers in the cabin spaces .Costs a lot more to install .
My firstboat was a small Sunseeker and they organised an English speaking tutor "all in " for week in La Napoule .
40-50 ft you will be fine .
Gardiennarge ? -when you are away -there is plenty of little Co,s that specialise in Looking after it -so that € cost needs factoring in .
Whisper quiet

Hi Portofino

Thank you for your info and for the details on the Itama range - I also just came across the video you attached to your earlier reply, I have to agree, this is a very cool boat!

I'll certainly take a closer look and keep an eye out to see if they are at the London Boat Show next week. That said, my wife's not convinced, saying there's not enough shaded area and no flybridge.

Very sleek though - Thanks for sharing

Allister

 

[jfm]

Welcome Allister. You make some good observations: when you said "probably consist largely of taking the boat out of the marina, stoping off in a small cove, or on the edge of the coast and settling there for a couple of days, relaxing, eating, enjoying the peace, tranquility and views of the coast, moving around a little within a small area but nothing too long distance" you got it exactly right. That is the fun of boating, and the most fun is had when you're stopped, not when you're moving.

Flybridges are great. Much more space for a given length, and easier to handle because of the visibility. The concern about "top heaviness" is a non issue

Poster A&K on here have a 2010 Squadron 58 flybridge available for charter with skipper in Antibes. Very nice machine - the s58 is one of the best designs in its size category in the whole history of boating (I owned 2 of them). PM them to book it - probably from easter onwards. Also Boats.co.uk have a targa 47 in cala d'Or Mallorca as mentioned above (non flybridge) and that too is a nice machine

To whet appetite here are some cruising vids, and A+K's charter-able squadron 58 is 2nd from left in the 5-boat raft up in the first video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvqar_tlQr8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHEj_0BFEME
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYdX-Y7vuS4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JR-eSyCGFuI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmhwfO-U0Js

 

[benjenbav]

I'd also vouch for the Sq58. One of the best. Plus - I'll get shot down in flames for saying this - but a bigger boat can be easier to handle than a smaller one.*

* For old hands: the first person to make this observation to me was when I was looking at Nelson 38s. And it was....GLUDY

Sorry, Allister: bit of an in-joke there.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

I'd also vouch for the Sq58. One of the best. Plus - I'll get shot down in flames for saying this - but a bigger boat can be easier to handle than a smaller one.*
.

Mmm, maybe but its also a case of the bigger they are the harder they fall. You can do a lot more damage with a bigger boat when you cock it up

 

[Pyrenean Mountain Dog]

Hi jfm, benjenbav and Deleted User

Thank you all for your comments and also thank you to jfm in particular for the cruising vids, you're right it really does whet the appetite and make me feel even more certain that this is something I want to be part of my life.

Thank you also for confirming that my ideals about boating are "exactly right" - It's great to receive reassurance.

Also interesting to hear two of you, both saying that the Squadron 58 flybridge is a great boat - This is one I'll certainly take a closer look at.

In terms of whether or not I should start smaller or larger, this is something I think I will only be able to establish after spending some time on board, both by way of charter and through training courses - I do appreciate and hear what Deleted User (and many others) are saying about starting off smaller and working up, I guess this probably is wise - Although, I suspect the downside to this process will almost certainly be taking a considerable loss every time I change boats (a loss that I suspect will almost certainly be in the tens of thousands each time), something I would rather avoid if I can.

As I said though, I think only experience and time on board will enable to make the correct decision regarding size.

Thank you once again to all three of you for your help and input.

Allister

 

[MapisM]

Also interesting to hear two of you, both saying that the Squadron 58 flybridge is a great boat

Make it three. Fwiw, she would definitely be in my shortlist, if I were looking for a boat of that size/type.
Just be aware that she doesn't have a center master cabin, which for some reason most wives think is a must, after seeing one.