Changes to Mayday call

[Solitaire]

To avoid double direct double posting some may find this of interest - http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=296139

 

[westhinder]

Thanks for the link.
For those who do not yet have something similar stuck next to their vhf, this is a good example.

 

[ribrage]

To avoid double direct double posting some may find this of interest - http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=296139

Nice life jacket .

 

[Roberto]

Source ?

What is the original source of this regulation ?

I have found no reference on Ofcom web site, it seems the info has been published on the RYA Wavelength which is hardly an original source, it refers to the World Radiocommunication Conference, I looked at the WRC07 documents and the only one I found about Mayday procedure is this one:

http://www.itu.int/rec/R-REC-M.541-9-200405-I/en

Annex 3, Point 1.3 indicates the radiotelephony procedure to be followed after having sent a DSC Distress call


Note that *if one has already sent a DSC Distress call*, the MAYDAY word must only be spoken ONCE

[...]
9-digit identity AND callsign OR other indentification of the ship
[...]

there is no mention of doubling anything, just send once the MMSI + another identification


After WRC07 the following one is next year so I doubt there are more up to date documents ?

 

[mikemanor]

Results of WRC/07

You need to look in the published results of the WRC/07. The bit for Distress Comms (Chapter 7) can be found at:

http://life.itu.ch/radioclub/rr/chapt-7.pdf

Look at Article 32 paras 32.13c and 32.13d which cover the Distress Call and Distress Message. Each require Callsign and MMSI.

I need to get back on the water

 

[Scotty_Tradewind]

I've recently attached the MayDay advice above the radio much as it has always been in my own short experience.
With a real situation I wonder how much information one frightened crew in a dangerous situation may or may not be able to transmit about the basics, let alone mmsi etc..

 

[BlackPig]

I cam across the new method while on the sea survival course. What a load of croc, I want the position out asap. If the have the call sign they don't need mmsi. I want to get out Who, Where and What's up quickly. Then how many on board what I'm doing, what I need, any other information

 

[alant]

I cam across the new method while on the sea survival course. What a load of croc, I want the position out asap. If the have the call sign they don't need mmsi. I want to get out Who, Where and What's up quickly. Then how many on board what I'm doing, what I need, any other information

MIPDANIO!

 

[chanelyacht]

MIPDANIO!

MIPNANOO surely ?

If the have the call sign they don't need mmsi

Yes, the MMSI is needed.

Reason is simple - if you don't give the MMSI, we will need to spend time looking it up via ITU. If you have sent a distress MMSI, we need to ensure that the following voice mayday is the same vessel - it HAS happened in the past where two maydays have gone out in a similar area, one by DSC and one by voice. It was assumed that the voice was the follow up for the DSC - in fact, they were different vessels and the first DSC call was very nearly missed.

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

if you don't give the MMSI, we will need to spend time looking it up via ITU.

Surely disentangling multiple calls for the same event are an everyday part of your job? So I don't see that makes it worth giving the MMSI a higher priority in the message than position.


Anyway, leaving that aside, can someone point me at the World Radiocommunication Conference recommendation for a Mayday call? I really appreciate mikemanor's link but it's broken for me and they seem to charge for all the docs I could see.

 

[VicMallows]

I really appreciate mikemanor's link but it's broken for me and they seem to charge for all the docs I could see.

Link works fine for me.....but you will probably just see a blank screen until you scroll down a bit.

 

[Seajet]

I agree with those who suggest it nonsense to even consider quoting numbers at a time like a Mayday; my motto is 'position first, then the niceties if time and the battery allow'...

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

Link works fine for me.....but you will probably just see a blank screen until you scroll down a bit.

Thanks Vic. Now I know it worked for you I tried explorer and it's fine.

 

[BlackPig]

MIPNANOO surely ?



- if you don't give the MMSI, we will need to spend time looking it up via ITU. .

Yes you can look it up. How ever Mr Yachty who may be close by cannot. Do not forget the Mayday is not just for the Coastguard but the closes person to you. Get your lat long out and description of position "3 miles NW off point helpfull" Your radio may go down before the end of the mayday.

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

You need to look in the published results of the WRC/07.

Thanks Mike.

32.13C § 9B 1) The distress call sent on the frequency 156.8 MHz (VHF channel 16)
shall be given in the following form:
– the distress signal MAYDAY, spoken three times;
– the words THIS IS;
– the name of the vessel in distress, spoken three times;
– the call sign or other identification;
– the MMSI (if the initial alert has been sent by DSC). (WRC-07)
32.13D 2) The distress message which follows the distress call should be given in
the following form:
– the distress signal MAYDAY;
– the name of the vessel in distress;
– the call sign or other identification;
– the MMSI (if the initial alert has been sent by DSC);
– the position, given as the latitude and longitude, or if the latitude and
longitude are not known or if time is insufficient, in relation to a known
geographical location;
– the nature of the distress;
– the kind of assistance required;
– any other useful information.

I didn't know that Lat and Long were the prefered way to give a position. Perhaps that explains why the CG always seem to request lat and long even when they've been given what seems to me to be a more immediately recognisable position (eg: Just collided with the fortification in Castle Bay). Frankly, there are times when I'd need to switch my mobile on to get a lat & long to 5 metres accuracy!

So next question, and forgive my ignorance. If this was all agreed in 2007, why has it only just come into force?

 

[Reverend Ludd]

Thanks Mike.

32.13C § 9B 1) The distress call sent on the frequency 156.8 MHz (VHF channel 16)
shall be given in the following form:
– the distress signal MAYDAY, spoken three times;
– the words THIS IS;
– the name of the vessel in distress, spoken three times;
– the call sign or other identification;
– the MMSI (if the initial alert has been sent by DSC). (WRC-07)
32.13D 2) The distress message which follows the distress call should be given in
the following form:
– the distress signal MAYDAY;
– the name of the vessel in distress;
– the call sign or other identification;
– the MMSI (if the initial alert has been sent by DSC);
– the position, given as the latitude and longitude, or if the latitude and
longitude are not known or if time is insufficient, in relation to a known
geographical location;
– the nature of the distress;
– the kind of assistance required;
– any other useful information.

I didn't know that Lat and Long were the prefered way to give a position. Perhaps that explains why the CG always seem to request lat and long even when they've been given what seems to me to be a more immediately recognisable position (eg: Just collided with the fortification in Castle Bay). Frankly, there are times when I'd need to switch my mobile on to get a lat & long to 5 metres accuracy!

So next question, and forgive my ignorance. If this was all agreed in 2007, why has it only just come into force?

You missed a bit

 

[Aries]

In practice

Earlier this year I saw a boat hit by another, with one crew member thrown overboard. The boat was then pushed on to piles and then sank, with two more people in the water. I had a handheld available and called the coastguard, whilst manouvering my boat round to assist. It was a Mayday situation, but help as wanted instantly.
I certainly did not follow Mayday procedures, but gave the location, situation and detail of what help was required. This was heard locally and assistance arrived almost immediately, whilst I was still speaking to the CG.
In this situation I reacted to the situation, not following a procedure that, in my view, would have taken too long. The main radio, as on many boats, is mounted below, where the MSSI number is displayed. Like most, I can remember by call sign.
Was I wrong? What would you have done?

 

[Plomong]

Earlier this year I saw a boat hit by another, with one crew member thrown overboard. The boat was then pushed on to piles and then sank, with two more people in the water. I had a handheld available and called the coastguard, whilst manouvering my boat round to assist. It was a Mayday situation, but help as wanted instantly.
I certainly did not follow Mayday procedures, but gave the location, situation and detail of what help was required. This was heard locally and assistance arrived almost immediately, whilst I was still speaking to the CG.
In this situation I reacted to the situation, not following a procedure that, in my view, would have taken too long. The main radio, as on many boats, is mounted below, where the MSSI number is displayed. Like most, I can remember by call sign.
Was I wrong? What would you have done?

No, you were not wrong. The first priority is effective communications, not protocol correctness.

Get the necessary and available data out, and to hell with the niceties. Time for them later, if deemed necessary. The coast radio station will ask you for any missing data (MMSI, etc) if they need it, and communications are still open, and you have the time for it. However, I rate position, nature of problem and assistance required, then name and type of vessel and number of persons aboard, as being of higher priority than the MMSI number. I do understand the reason MMSI was added to the protocol definition as explained by another poster, but if time is short, the problem serious, all going to hell in a handcart, there may be other things of more importance than getting hung up transmitting and clarifying an MMSI number.

Plomong

 

[Reverend Ludd]

I wonder how many seconds it would save you to leave call sign and MSSI out ?

 

[Roberto]

I think radio procedures are mainly written with the typical ship in mind: several crew, a dedicated radio operator, most people onboard having a professional seafarer background, etc

this of course has nothing in common with the typical leisure boat: the singlehanded, the family, the two friends who went out fishing for a few hours, the odd charter boat with one competent skipper and the rest being there just for fun, etc

Try to time the seconds it takes to send a full, correct distress message: distress alert, wait for acknowledgment, send voice call, send voice message, wait for MRCC call, answer them... easily a few minutes

if you have fire onboard, or a crew overboard, or you hit the rocks and are taking plenty of water, or you have dismasted and drifting a few 100m from a lee shore, or whatever... how much time would you spend talking on the radio instead of taking care of other more vital tasks ? The time needed to send a distress alert ok yes, but for how more long ?


yes I know ...the correct procedure allows to transmit the maximum information in the least time with the least error... eventually helps better the rescuers, but aren't there times when this should be superseded by other more stringent needs?
It's ok everyone likes to play Being Admiral game, but what if it's a real distress ?
Shouldn't there be a different prioritization for small boats ? Simplyfied procedures ?

For example, a few rescue boat captains have stated "when we leave port, we just have one number in our minds: the number of people to be rescued"
Ask the odd leisure boater and he/she will talk about mayday, positions, callsign, fire flooding aground etc, though the number of people to be rescued would probably be a lot more important piece of information, possibly the first thing an MRCC would ask.