Changes to Mayday call

[LadyInBed]

Yes, the MMSI is needed.

You won't get an MMSI from me! - I don't have one.

But I will let you know that my PLB has been activated.

Reason is simple - if you don't give the MMSI, we will need to spend time looking it up via ITU.

Are you saying that you will do nothing about the call till you have looked it up via ITU?

How long does it take to look up?

 

[chanelyacht]

Are you saying that you will do nothing about the call till you have looked it up via ITU?

How long does it take to look up?

Of course we will start taking action immediately on receipt.

How long to look up? Probably around a minute or so, taking one operator (probably only 4 or 5 on station) out of the equation. Bear in mind one operator is dedicated Ch16 and will be receipting the mayday / talking to the casualty, one will plot the position, others will be tasking assets, etc - and this may be just one of a number of ongoing calls, maybe during another protracted search on the coast unknown to the seagoing community.

If it's a newly issued MMSI, we may not have it for up to a month after issue, so have to use other sources to find it which take considerably longer.

In this situation I reacted to the situation, not following a procedure that, in my view, would have taken too long. The main radio, as on many boats, is mounted below, where the MSSI number is displayed. Like most, I can remember by call sign.
Was I wrong? What would you have done?

You did what you needed to - we could have asked for anything else we needed. No issues with that course of action at all.

 

[Elessar]

No, you were not wrong. The first priority is effective communications, not protocol correctness.

Get the necessary and available data out, and to hell with the niceties. Time for them later, if deemed necessary. The coast radio station will ask you for any missing data (MMSI, etc) if they need it, and communications are still open, and you have the time for it. However, I rate position, nature of problem and assistance required, then name and type of vessel and number of persons aboard, as being of higher priority than the MMSI number. I do understand the reason MMSI was added to the protocol definition as explained by another poster, but if time is short, the problem serious, all going to hell in a handcart, there may be other things of more importance than getting hung up transmitting and clarifying an MMSI number.

Plomong

I agree with every word here. +1 therefore.

 

[Elessar]

How long to look up? Probably around a minute or so, taking one operator (probably only 4 or 5 on station) out of the equation.

- - - - - 8<- - - - - - -

If it's a newly issued MMSI, we may not have it for up to a month after issue, so have to use other sources to find it which take considerably longer.

doesn't take a rocket scientist to see what needs fixing, and it isn't by the sticking plaster of a protocol that no one will remember........

 

[Koeketiene]

Yes, the MMSI is needed.

Reason is simple - if you don't give the MMSI, we will need to spend time looking it up via ITU. If you have sent a distress MMSI, we need to ensure that the following voice mayday is the same vessel - it HAS happened in the past where two maydays have gone out in a similar area, one by DSC and one by voice. It was assumed that the voice was the follow up for the DSC - in fact, they were different vessels and the first DSC call was very nearly missed.

Having a DSC set is NOT compulsory, neither is having an MMSI number.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

The reason for a protocol or procedure is simply to have a consistent method of notifying listeners that there is an emergency situation, some of the data is useful for official agencies who may respond and some is useful for anyone who may respond.

I have just timed making a Mayday with all the data above for my vessel, including the statement "There are 3 persons onboard, I am sinking, abandoning my vessel". I didn't ask for a vessel to come and give assistance nor did I repeat any data given in the "distress call", when I gave the "distress message", that would be a dumb thing to do.

It took me 35 seconds to make the spoken part of my virtual mayday. It took another 20 seconds to follow the procedure as laid out in toad_of_toahall's post. In those 20 seconds I can, leave the VHF station at the chart table, manually release and launch my liferaft (inflation extra).

I have a card mounted next to the VHF with the procedure for me, but more importantly for those who may not be so familiar if I can not attend the radio.

 

[chanelyacht]

Having a DSC set is NOT compulsory, neither is having an MMSI number.

Not for leisure vessels, no - but it is highly advisable...

Having said that, a voice only VHF is better than none...

 

[Solitaire]

doesn't take a rocket scientist to see what needs fixing, and it isn't by the sticking plaster of a protocol that no one will remember........

That's why I produced the format! So you don't have to remember! One of the most important things that you take to sea should be common sense - if you don't have an MMSI number then you don't/can't use it, if you can't remember your call sign then even if it just a bit of tape near the radio that would suffice. The format of the card has now been changed so you can type in the boat details and print it off - easy!

 

[fireball]

It sounds like what's needed is a single or double check character that can be transmitted via audio which will either match or not the electronically submitted MMSI number - either that or each audio transmission is preceeded by a sqwark which includes your MMSI number (if programmed!) - isn't this already available in ATIS?

This would allow the receiver to link the electronic distress call with the audio version.
To my mind it is far better to get across the information that is LACKING in the electronic distress - so to that end I'm not going to reel out my MMSI number or my Lat/Long - I am going to give boat name, approx location, number of persons and the nature of distress in the first instance, I suppose I should include that I preceded the call with a DSC alarm as this should also help the CG tie up the calls.
The location will be approx range and bearing of a well known location or if close enough to a prominent object then that will do ...

 

[alant]

MIPNANOO surely ?



Yes, the MMSI is needed.

Reason is simple - if you don't give the MMSI, we will need to spend time looking it up via ITU. If you have sent a distress MMSI, we need to ensure that the following voice mayday is the same vessel - it HAS happened in the past where two maydays have gone out in a similar area, one by DSC and one by voice. It was assumed that the voice was the follow up for the DSC - in fact, they were different vessels and the first DSC call was very nearly missed.

MIPDANIO was the aide memoir taught to me, way back & when the s.h.i.t hits the fan, it is still a simple way of remembering the absolutely essential points IMO & easy to remember.

When your up to your armpits in water scenario & panic is a close advisor, simplicity must be the way to go.

M - Mayday x 3
I - Identity (ships name) x 3
P - Position (Lat/Long, or 'can see a white house with a green roof')
D - Distress (what the nature of distress is)
A - Assistance required
N - NOBS (number of people on board, including self!)
I - Information (anything that might help - we are a sailboat with red sails + lots of black smoke about to use liferaft/etc)
O - Over!

Salient points are covered in the above, add the rest if able.

PS this was before DSC was common, but should still work.

 

[humbug716]

An interesting thread. I have done emergency work from both the coastguard side, though not with them, and waterborne. As a receiving operator I would tell persons that whilst correct procedure was nice I did'nt care as long as I got all the relevant information. What they forget is that operating the radio and giving the details requires elements of fine motor skills which in times of stress can suddenly go out of the window. We were recovering an aground yacht off a lee shore in a horrible squall last week and as it got a little intense my colleague, with years of experience forgot how to tie a bowline, its as easy as that. As soon as somebody puts out the call I could tell from the voice how bad it was likely to be. The people who used to scare me were the ones who would call on the working channel stating that they had a bit of a problem, Typical stiff upper lip and understatement!

 

[chanelyacht]

As a receiving operator I would tell persons that whilst correct procedure was nice I did'nt care as long as I got all the relevant information. What they forget is that operating the radio and giving the details requires elements of fine motor skills which in times of stress can suddenly go out of the window.

Absolutely.

Whatever the regs / protocols say, get the position out quickly - if you disappear after that, at least we know where to start. We'll ask the rest as and when we need it.

We can still be pragmatic on these things

 

[fireball]

As position is the most vital bit of information you need then you have to question why it isn't suggested as one of the first items transmitted ...

ie:
Mayday x 3
Postition x 2
Yachtname x 3
Nature of distress
PoBoard etc

Because if all goes pearshaped and all you receive is Mayday and the position then you (the CG) can task craft to the area to report back - as you say, until you get the position you're on a non-starter ....

Even with DSC there is a chance that the call isn't placed - eg don't hold the button for long enough or there is a technical error with the kit - so in that instance you'd need to broadcast your position - great if the VHF is still working in audio mode ...

 

[maxi77]

My view is very much that as you would like the chaps at the other end to help you as fast as possible helping them as much as you can makes sense. To not pass information as requested when you can is just pigheadedness. Equally the person on the other end must have enough CDF to be able to not be pedantic when the guy at sea is really up against it and has other things on his mind like survival

 

[fireball]

To not pass information as requested when you can is just pigheadedness.

I don't think anyone is saying they won't pass the information - just that it wouldn't be prioritised in the first call ..
For myself - I'd be happy to confirm my MMSI number and any other (pertinent) details they request - but I'd rather they knew where I was and what the problem was first.

 

[Elessar]

That's why I produced the format! So you don't have to remember! One of the most important things that you take to sea should be common sense - if you don't have an MMSI number then you don't/can't use it, if you can't remember your call sign then even if it just a bit of tape near the radio that would suffice. The format of the card has now been changed so you can type in the boat details and print it off - easy!

That's a good idea

Don't get me wrong, I accept that the way it is is what we should do, and as such an aide memoire is emminantly sensible. You seem to be the only one that has a correct one at the moment!

That doesn't stop me thinking that the powers that be are missing a trick - do you know how real life users can feed back to these seemingly anonymous decision makers? Doubt they read rants like mine on here......

 

[peterandjeanette]

I always remember a talk I went to many years ago given by Solent Coastguard.

He said that they have to be prepared as " people always panic in their own language".

Just wondered what their rection would be to pure Black Country. ( I only use it when I panic)

 

[Plomong]

, though the number of people to be rescued would probably be a lot more important piece of information, possibly the first thing an MRCC would ask.

I don't agree -- the first and most important items are position and nature of distress. If you manage to get those across the communications channel and nothing else, there is still hope !!! If you only get across number of persons on board, you're on your own, mate !!!!

Another poster has asked how many seconds does it take to transmit an MMSI. Well, the times I've tried, in practice runs, the person transmitting has rarely managed to get all 8 digits across AND VERIFIED in a single interchange. There has usually been a need for two or more question/answer interchanges, and that takes time, which you may not have. Hence the priority I gave in my other post, which I repeat here:
Where (position)
What's Up (nature of distress)
What's required (assistance requested)
Who (type and name of vessel and number on board)
Others (Call sign, MMSI, additional info that may be relevant)

With "Mayday" + position, a rescue operation can and will be initiated.
With "Mayday" + position + What's Up, a rescue operation can and will be initiated.

With more info, a better operation can be initiated, of course, but when the chips are down and all is going to hell in a handcart, and quickly, it may be of crucial importance to remember the above. The batteries may be shorted before you get to item 3 !!!!

Plomong

 

[maxi77]

I don't think anyone is saying they won't pass the information - just that it wouldn't be prioritised in the first call ..
For myself - I'd be happy to confirm my MMSI number and any other (pertinent) details they request - but I'd rather they knew where I was and what the problem was first.

The whole point of the MMSI number for example is to avoid confusion with auto alarms from the same area. It is thus in your interest to get a speedy rewsponce to resolve any ambiguity, so perhaps the number is quite high on the priotity list. After all you do want the rescuers to look for your boat as well as another.

After all if you do not have a DSC radio you will be blisfully unaware of the auto alarm that went off jusy as you made your own call

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

With "Mayday" + position, a rescue operation can and will be initiated.
With "Mayday" + position + What's Up, a rescue operation can and will be initiated.

With more info, a better operation can be initiated, of course, but when the chips are down and all is going to hell in a handcart, and quickly, it may be of crucial importance to remember the above.

+1, wise words.


I'm really curious. The original recommendation/agreement seems to have been several years ago. What date did the new procedure come into force? Why has it only come to our attention now?