Chandlers latest update - bit sad

[Rum_Pirate]

Goodbye.

. . and the vanquished leave the field.

 

[snowleopard]

I suspect that it's too late to rescue this thread from bigotry and name calling (heaven help us if/when the Lounge is shut down).

Let us hope the Chandlers come to no more harm. The consequences if they are murdered would be radical in terms of putting an end to the softly softly approach of most of the world's navies and I imagine whoever is leading the pirates is bright enough to see that. FWIW I think the government was entirely correct to prevent the ransom being paid though I acknowledge that I would feel very differently if they were my relatives.

 

[V1701]

For most of the past 3 months I have been in the YBW.com rehab clinic and unable to post here. The astonishing momentum of all the hostage threads has been maintained with very little input from me, there must have been 1000's of posts and 10,000+ reads.

The whole YBW.com community is guilty of jumping on the hostage situation debating platform. I can only conclude that your little vindictive dagger is out today because my broader comments have hit close to home and upset your cosy moral reference points.

Well FYI and FWIW I think I am of similar age to you (I'm 43) and I do agree with a lot of what you say, it's the way you go about it. And what really got to me was this comment:

"I don't have any instinctive empathy for these two middle aged gap year ocean joy riders who wilfully ignored local advice and navigated into trouble."

 

[Deleted member 36384]

....Well FYI and FWIW I think I am of similar age to you (I'm 43) and I do agree with a lot of what you say, it's the way you go about it. And what really got to me was this comment...

djbreeze, I am 44. jonjo4 talks tripe, he wraps up complicated issues into trite, sound bite statements apportioning blame as if he is some sage. In the Lounge I would have broken my resolution for a second time but not here.

Bluewater Cruising in this area because of the Chandlers situation would now be a very risky enterprise to undertake. Before their current situation you could conclude that it would be OK. We are very connected now and expect instant information but blue water removes that ability. By its nature you learn to deal with situations on your own and make judgement calls.

The reasons for economic poverty in many world regions are legion and the tripe about blaming baby boomers is naive and incredulous to the facts of post WWII industrial expansion. At best he is obtuse.

Blue water sailors can cause insensitivity and his comments on the ARC are valid. Much of Caribbean has a juxtapositional image which is almost invisible by its normality in the sailing world, except if you are poor. This juxtaposition of wealth is now common place in many classic blue water destinations and more obvious. That doesn't of course mean more dangerous.

It is a matter that blue water cruisers should be mindful about. Highly publicised sailing events draw attention to this fact and many people will not differentiate between ocean wandering lifestylists and elite cruisers. It would be interesting to note if there is an increase in assault and theft from blue water cruisers.

 

[longjohnsilver]

Your post caused me to stop for a moment and reflect. So I used the search facility for the word "hostage". There are 14 threads with about 950 posts discussing the Chandlers. In addition there are around 25,000 views.

One thread is even titled "were they irresponsible".

Now I am angry, you lot are using this thread to engage in some ritualistic shedding of collective guilt I played virtually no part in. It must be the same physiological process that takes place in prisons where the mass murderers snarl with moral superiority at the convicted pedophiles.

You lot disgust me. Goodbye.

I'm afraid that you brought it on yourself with your insensitive extreme views on the Chandlers. Presumably we will see another re-incarnation as Jonjo5 ;-(

 

[lw395]

Of course you have, you are a fully subscribed member of that self indulgent, Western, white, middle class club.


Who cares about delusional group think?

These people seem to think is it acceptable for 0.000014% of the world's population to opt out of a productive lifestyle in the prime of life and then indulge in a permanent holiday while parading gross wealth, personal indecency and indolence right under the noses of 5 billion people struggling to feed their children.

And then you all engage in an internet coordinated tantrum when a handful of the impoverished 5 billion decide to grab a share of that wealth.

You people have no sense of history, the world has just experienced an a-typical 200 years. Pax Britannica followed by Pax Americana policed the world but now both countries are financially broken.

The world is wobbling while a new order is established and just now is the wrong time for white middle class luvvies to galavant around the oceans showering dollas and euros on the grateful natives. They are not grateful anymore and they have lost respect for western values.

Jonjo, I think you make many valid points about our society and the way that post war Britain has spent not only the inheritance of today's young, but their future earnings.

However I think the Chandlers are a poor example of this, not being excessively wealthy by many standards.
I don't see much merit in picking over the advice they took, you can get conflicting authoratative advice on any subject, some of it will always look good after the event.

It is a complete failure of world government(s) when such a large area is subject to unchallenged piracy.


Western (and other) nations should be helping and forcing Somalia to sort this out.

I hope there will be a happy outcome to this, and something done about the ongoing problem.

Cheers,

 

[seanfoster]

I have just been reading this thread and have been astonished by the now retired (hopefully, but you can bet he's still reading these posts!) Jonjo.

I have come across this type of person a few times (had the unfortunate experience of working with one once!) who doesn't really have a grip on how to behave and act in public, are delusional in the fact that they are right and everyone else is wrong.

The best way to deal with these people (in my opinion) is ignore them, their opinions don't really add anything useful to an argument anyway! (and definitely not to this thread!)

 

[lenseman]

Rachel Chandler was very nearly raped by one of her captors the other day. This report via the Mail On-Line.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...dler-My-rape-terror-hands-Somali-pirates.html

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

kill all pirates, would-be pirates and maybe-pirates, like Drake might have done

LOL! Drake was a career Pirate and Privateer. He actually died during an act of Piracy (natural causes having cornered a Spanish treasure ship he was about to rob)!

 

[Madhatter]

Your post caused me to stop for a moment and reflect. So I used the search facility for the word "hostage". There are 14 threads with about 950 posts discussing the Chandlers. In addition there are around 25,000 views.

One thread is even titled "were they irresponsible".

Now I am angry, you lot are using this thread to engage in some ritualistic shedding of collective guilt I played virtually no part in. It must be the same physiological process that takes place in prisons where the mass murderers snarl with moral superiority at the convicted pedophiles.

You lot disgust me. Goodbye.

 

[webcraft]

So. Farewell
then Jonjo4.

Keiths mother knew
Your father
Jonjo3

She said he was
A proper banker

E Jarvis Thribb (age 17 ½)

 

[Slow_boat]

I would just like to point out that the lack of dynamic action by the navy was due likely to be due to government policy, not choice by the captain or crew of the ship involved. At the time the powers that be were keen to point out that at that time no hostage had been killed. The inference is that there were no lives in danger, just property (boat) and money. To use force would have endangered lives (the hostages) that were not in danger.

If the threat to the Chandlers is carried out (and I sincerely hope it isn't) the intervention rational changes. Or it should.

 

[SeaMark]

Use subs. Use Marines on converted yachts armed to the teeth. Use spy satellites. Use local intel. Use extreme force and blow them all out of the water when they approach vessels on passage.

Nanny wouldn't like it but the pirates would sure as hell would stop.

 

[Rum_Pirate]

Use subs. Use Marines on converted yachts armed to the teeth. Use spy satellites. Use local intel. Use extreme force and blow them all out of the water when they approach vessels on passage.

Nanny wouldn't like it but the pirates would sure as hell would stop.

Why not, it has been done before (converted yachts armed to the teeth) known as Q ships

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q-ship

Q-ships, also known as Q-boats, Decoy Vessels, Special Service Ships or Mystery Ships, were heavily armed merchant ships with concealed weaponry, designed to lure submarines into making surface attacks. This gave Q-ships the chance to open fire and sink them.

The basic ethos of every Q-ship was to be a wolf in sheep's clothing.

They were used by the British Royal Navy (RN) during the First World War and by both the RN and the United States Navy during the Second World War (1939–1945), as a countermeasure against German U-boats and Japanese submarines.

 

[SeaMark]

Yes and in WW2 as well - my father was on a converted fishing boat in Northern Norway looking for German subs in the fjords. Very successful when the subs surfaced...

 

[janeh]

very sad

My feelings too.

Poor couple.
Someone should help them for pete's sake.

Why the SBS were not sent in (I think they nearly were, but were told to stand down (politicians !) is beyond me.

Maybe direct action by private people?

Hire a yacht.

Get arms.

Hire ex-royal marines (or SBS).

Don't know if £100k would be enough.

Trouble is intel.

If they keep moving them around...

Needs a lot of planning. But it could be done, couldn't it?

 

[lenseman]

Update 25 feb 2010

UPDATE 25 FEB 2010:

The pirates who captured a retired British couple four months ago have dismissed growing pressure from the Somali diaspora for their unconditional release but are reducing their ransom demands.

Speaking to The Times from the place where Paul and Rachel Chandler are held, a pirate leader identifying himself as Ali Gedow rejected appeals from the British and other expatriate Somali communities worried about their reputation. “We don’t care about their pressure,” he declared.

But he made no mention of the pirates’ original demand for a $7 million (£4.5 million) ransom and suggested that they might release the couple if they can recoup their “expenses”. He put those at around $2 million, claiming that they included the cost of 150 guards, renting vehicles and food.


Noonsite report:

http://www.noonsite.com/Members/sue/R2010-02-25-1


Time Online report:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/letters/article7042877.ece


Garoweonline report:

http://www.garoweonline.com/artman2...mand_to_paid_expense_for_British_couple.shtml
x
x

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

recoup their “expenses”. He put those at around $2 million, claiming that they included the cost of 150 guards, renting vehicles and food.

I love the way they feel the need to itemize their ransom demand, as though that makes it in some way more valid! Should the family ask for reciepts, I'd hate them to get ripped off???!!!

 

[activesail]

Torment..

This morning I have read an article on the torment that the Chandler's are feeling, through their separation from each other.

Particularly as there wedding anniversary is approaching. Paul Chandler says he is comforted by the information that the British based Somali people are trying to do there best to encourage their release and all the other groups of well wishers.

So I thought I would update the forum with this information.

At the same time wishing them both well and hopefully a rapid release.