Chain/rope (Gawd help us)

[mick]

First off, thanks to all who posted on my earlier Chain/scope thread, although some of the posts generated more heat than light, but that always seems to happen when a thread has anything to do with anchoring.
I would like to use, say, 40m of chain plus 60m of rope but with my electric windlass I would have to use a chain/rope splice and I think I would sleep poorly thinking that would be a weak point. Hence the plan to have 60m of chain and no rope. Would such a splice really be a potential problem or is my paranoia just getting worse? Until now I have used 40m of chain joined to 30m of 16mm nylon 3-strand but the join consisted of a substantial thimble/eye splice and a big shackle. Hello. Hello. Is anyone still there? Thank you for your patience.

 

[Bajansailor]

I think that chain to rope splices are pretty reliable really - you probably should keep an eye out for any chafe happening though.
There are two types - using multiplait, where the strands are woven through the links of the chain, and using three strand, where the strands go around the end link of the chain and are then spliced back on to the standing part.
Is it possible for both types of splices to happily go over a windlass gypsy?

If you have let out a lot of cable and are on to the rope, and you are worried about that joint, you could just have an extra rope cable handy as you are letting out the cable, and shackle the end on to the chain below the rope splice to the chain as it is paid out, and have the extra rope as a back up in case the main rope parts for any reason.

 

[Twister_Ken]

Don't see why you should be reluctant to trust a rope to chain splice, when you currently trust a rope to rope splice around your thimble and shackle.

 

[Tranona]

You can also splice 3 strand along the chain so that it runs through the windlass, rather than doing a back splice which won't run.

Very common to have splices - I have 60M of 8mm and 50M of 3 strand on a Lofrans windlass.

You can get splicing diagrams from the Jimmy Green website.

 

[Iain C]

Glad you asked this. My boat came with all chain, but not that much of it. I bought another substantial piece of anchor warp (eye spliced at both ends...was cheaper ready made than off the reel!) but the eye splice is far too big to go through my hawse pipe. At the moment I just make the chain off on the samson post, untie the bitter end and then shackle the warp on...with the obvious high chance of losing the lot over the side!

I preferred the look of the splice where it was threaded through several links of the chain, rather than just spliced round one, again for reasons of spreading the chafe rather than having it all in one place. I was not aware that it was different splices for different materials...I have a feeling mine is multiplait so I will do that when I get round to splicing them together!

 

[Tranona]

Just Google rope chain splice and you will be inundated with sources of diagrams and videos on how to do it yourself.

 

[TradewindSailor]

I've used rope/chain spices for years. No problem except that you may have to resplice after a couple of years if the chain shows signs of rust ..... but then you may be thinking of swapping the ends over anyway.

Splices are actually much stronger than knots and kinder to the rope.

Using a multi-link splice may stiffen that section up that section of chain enough to cause problems with the gypsy, so just take it easy when winching the splice through.

 

[MASH]

I spent a happy couple of hours wearing my fingers raw doing an unfamiliar multiplait to chain splice which I understand is stronger and more reliable than a shackle but the windlass just choked on it - no way would that go round the gipsy. The splice ends up about 10 inches long (8 links of 8mm) and doubles the girth of the chain at that point.

My windlass may not be the ideal design, a vertical gipsy about 3 inches above the chainpipe so there is a lot of bend needed in a short distance. A looser splice didn't help either so I took it off. Personally if I'm going to drag I want to be able to recover my ground tackle not jettison it, and in such a situation conditions I don't think strugging with shackles, knots or unjamming a choked windlass on the foredeck is the way to go.

Others may fare better, but that's my experience.

 

[TradewindSailor]

I spent a happy couple of hours wearing my fingers raw doing an unfamiliar multiplait to chain splice which I understand is stronger and more reliable than a shackle but the windlass just choked on it - no way would that go round the gipsy. The splice ends up about 10 inches long (8 links of 8mm) and doubles the girth of the chain at that point.

My windlass may not be the ideal design, a vertical gipsy about 3 inches above the chainpipe so there is a lot of bend needed in a short distance. A looser splice didn't help either so I took it off. Personally if I'm going to drag I want to be able to recover my ground tackle not jettison it, and in such a situation conditions I don't think strugging with shackles, knots or unjamming a choked windlass on the foredeck is the way to go.

Others may fare better, but that's my experience.

You could always shackle the rope to the chain a few feet away from the bitter end so that the chain only leaves the gypsy when it is secure and the tie to the strongpoint can be released safely. BUT do check that both the tie and the strongpoint are strong enough for the loads on the anchor chain first. I remember going out on a school boat that tied its chain to the bulkhead with a thin piece of cord and the 'strong point' was a dinghy sized saddle clamp.

 

[Tranona]

I
Others may fare better, but that's my experience.

I think you are better off using 3 strand rather than multiplait for exacxtly the reason you mention. You need to unpick the 3 strands and remake into 4 but it does give a much smaller, neater splice if you sue the correct size rope. does not stow as easily as Multi but runs over the gipsy and down the chute better.

 

[fishermantwo]

I'm always facinated by the amount of chain you people cart about on the front of your yachts or even in cable lockers, surprised the boats sail at all. I live by the old rule, chain as long as your vessel then nylon rode. Worked for years on my commercial fishing vessel as well.

 

[saltwater_gypsy]

I'm always facinated by the amount of chain you people cart about on the front of your yachts or even in cable lockers, surprised the boats sail at all. I live by the old rule, chain as long as your vessel then nylon rode. Worked for years on my commercial fishing vessel as well.

I agree.
I came across a cruising yacht with a specially constructed bulb at the bow waterline. "To increase hull speed" I asked. "No", he replied, it was to keep the bow up to its lines with the massive amount of chain he had in the anchor locker!!!

 

[craigsmith]

I would like to use, say, 40m of chain plus 60m of rope but with my electric windlass I would have to use a chain/rope splice and I think I would sleep poorly thinking that would be a weak point. Hence the plan to have 60m of chain and no rope. Would such a splice really be a potential problem or is my paranoia just getting worse? Until now I have used 40m of chain joined to 30m of 16mm nylon 3-strand but the join consisted of a substantial thimble/eye splice and a big shackle. Hello. Hello. Is anyone still there? Thank you for your patience.

A splice is fine, you don't lose much strength if it's done right.
Technically a multi-link splice is better but likely to not behave nicely with your gypsy, meaning the [marginally] weaker and more vulnerable single link splice is probably necessary. Having said that a bit of manual intervention when you need more than 40 m rode is hardly the end of the world so long as you're not expecting to sit on the flybridge pressing a button

 

[vyv_cox]

I'm always facinated by the amount of chain you people cart about on the front of your yachts or even in cable lockers, surprised the boats sail at all. I live by the old rule, chain as long as your vessel then nylon rode. Worked for years on my commercial fishing vessel as well.

In crowded anchorages a boat on a rope rode will move further and in a very different way than those on all chain. In sheltered anchorages where the wind is more shifty this can often result in collisions.

In the eastern Mediterranean where berthing stern-to on your own anchor is the norm it is vastly preferable to be on all-chain, for a variety of reasons. But fishermen in the same area invariably use anchors made from rebar and all rope warps.

 

[mick]

A splice is fine, you don't lose much strength if it's done right.
Technically a multi-link splice is better but likely to not behave nicely with your gypsy, meaning the [marginally] weaker and more vulnerable single link splice is probably necessary. Having said that a bit of manual intervention when you need more than 40 m rode is hardly the end of the world so long as you're not expecting to sit on the flybridge pressing a button

Craig, thanks for your input. What do you mean by 'manual intervention'? I know what the words mean but not where and when the intervention takes place.

 

[craigsmith]

Well I just mean if the rope/chain gypsy won't handle the transition on its own. But even if not, how often do you let out more than 40 m of chain. Assuming you're talking about a rope/chain gypsy? If not then you are obviously involved in the process anyway.

 

[NormanS]

Well I just mean if the rope/chain gypsy won't handle the transition on its own. But even if not, how often do you let out more than 40 m of chain. Assuming you're talking about a rope/chain gypsy? If not then you are obviously involved in the process anyway.

Quite often, actually.

 

[mick]

Well I just mean if the rope/chain gypsy won't handle the transition on its own. But even if not, how often do you let out more than 40 m of chain. Assuming you're talking about a rope/chain gypsy? If not then you are obviously involved in the process anyway.

Got it, Craig. Thanks for clearing that up. There seems to be some doubt about windlasses handling the transition. Where I anchor on the west coast of Scotland I am usually in about 7-8m at HW, which is about 8-9m to the bow roller. If I put out 45m,say, that only gives me a scope of 5-1, which is normally the least I'm happy with. Obviously there are plenty of busier or tighter places, where that scope just isn't feasible, but generally I will put down as much as I can. If I could be happy with a rope/chain splice that would be strong as well as able to fit my shiny new Lofrans electric windlass I would go down that route. Failing that it's 60m of all-chain.

 

[stuartwineberg]

Check your windlass manufacturer

First off, thanks to all who posted on my earlier Chain/scope thread, although some of the posts generated more heat than light, but that always seems to happen when a thread has anything to do with anchoring.
I would like to use, say, 40m of chain plus 60m of rope but with my electric windlass I would have to use a chain/rope splice and I think I would sleep poorly thinking that would be a weak point. Hence the plan to have 60m of chain and no rope. Would such a splice really be a potential problem or is my paranoia just getting worse? Until now I have used 40m of chain joined to 30m of 16mm nylon 3-strand but the join consisted of a substantial thimble/eye splice and a big shackle. Hello. Hello. Is anyone still there? Thank you for your patience.

Can't add to the general gist of the replies but please avoid my cock up which was to do a wonderful chain to rope splice then to discover that the gipsy on the Lofrans windlass wont grip rope and the whole lot ran out leaving me with a heck of a job to get it over to the rope drum in a bit of a blow. Spoke to the Lofrans agent and they were very clear that the gipsy is for chain alone and Lofrans dont do a "hybrid "one - unlike a lot of other manufacturers. Still pondering but I think the rope has to come off and revert to the original set up unless readers can advise otherwise.

 

[mick]

Can't add to the general gist of the replies but please avoid my cock up which was to do a wonderful chain to rope splice then to discover that the gipsy on the Lofrans windlass wont grip rope and the whole lot ran out leaving me with a heck of a job to get it over to the rope drum in a bit of a blow. Spoke to the Lofrans agent and they were very clear that the gipsy is for chain alone and Lofrans dont do a "hybrid "one - unlike a lot of other manufacturers. Still pondering but I think the rope has to come off and revert to the original set up unless readers can advise otherwise.

I find this surprising as the EC Smith website says 8mm chain/16mm rope for my Project 1000, gypsy only. Might you have been using a rope that's too thin? However, if you're right, the decision about rode is made for me.