Caribbean lockdown

[t21]

.
At a conservative estimate, 'letting it rip' and 'taking it on the chin' would have resulted in half a million deaths in the UK.

This is more than lost their lives in the whole of WW2

If you think it is fine then I hope you are prepared to take one for the team.




- W

Doesn’t sound a conservative estimate? And you’ve gone all personal again in a vain attempt to press your (very flawed) point.

Uk Deaths in WW2 were of course highest amongst the young, under 30’s, the survival-of-the-species critical group as they reproduce. This is not the group that suffers in a flu epidemic.

Even on the Diamond Princess cruise ship, the youngest victim was aged 36.

Grim but true, an epidemic that attacks the “at risk anyway” would positively help the rest of the population. Lower property costs, lower healthcare bills, earlier inheritance!

I believe that they’ll back-peddle on this, and maybe sooner than any two weeks. US families are often quoted as being two pay checks from living on the streets. Were the elderly and infirm gonna vote anyway? Or maybe they were gonna do as you’re doing - cluttering up the Internet with yet more badly-thought-out scaremongering.

 

[newtothis]

I think Brent Swain has moved to the Caribbean. There's no point seeing with this sort of person. Like Trump supporters and climate change deniers, they see conspiracy in logic and believe their dogma above all else.
But I bet he wouldn't put his money where his mouth is. Until he can show he is an epidemiologist, or is prepared to mingle unprotected in an ICU, he should really just STFU.

 

[BurnitBlue]

There is a disconnect here. There is no vaccine yet. The fight against the virus is within each victims immune system. There is a very small number of patients who can be "saved" by using a ventilator. Until a vaccine is developed the hospitals seem to me to be basically making the dying more comfortable. Plus of course helping the infected few who make it to hospital to stay clean and hopefully not getting worse. They are of course doing great unselfish work but ultimately the final decision is made by the immune system. It goes without saying that everyone hopes a shortcut can be found for the use of one of the vaccines under test ASAP.

Discussion around this subject should be polite. Nothing said will alter the outcome one tiny miniscule nano bit. I am truly fed up with the aggresion on these forums. Especially from the snowflakes.

 

[t21]

Could you please explain how half a million deaths would be a 'slight uptick'??

The army are currently conveying coffins out of Bergamo because the local crematorium can no longer cope.

I strongly suggest you take a look at the science and the statistics behind the epidemic rather than speaking pure, unadulterated pish.


- W

Oh right so now you’re building on your own earlier made-up stuff.

The army is moving coffins cos everyone else is confined, doesn’t fancy the job, can’t be commanded, and it makes GREAT tv for the mildly educated but easily-excitable, like you.

You did precisely this on the transat trip on my boat some years ago, urgently wailing for a spinnaker to be taken down as a five-minute squall approached from astern in flat water. The boat speed lifted to 16knots instantaneous, and returned to normal 7-8 knots within minutes. You were wrong to panic then, wrong on issues since then, and hence likely wrong here too. It could be that your whole existence is to serve as a signpost to others - if you agree with Webcraft, chances are very high that you are wrong. Like the others who can’t spell, and to whom I can’t be bothered to reply.

I’m still pleased with my googleable(?) post Webcraftastic, though, a post I made years ago, and I’m pleased you enjoyed driving my Bentley when I visited Scotland. You’re such a nice person IRL and your bad comes out here. Do please try fix this?

 

[t21]

There is a disconnect here. There is no vaccine yet. The fight against the virus is within each victims immune system. There is a very small number of patients who can be "saved" by using a ventilator. Until a vaccine is developed the hospitals seem to me to be basically making the dying more comfortable. Plus of course helping the infected few who make it to hospital to stay clean and hopefully not getting worse. They are of course doing great unselfish work but ultimately the final decision is made by the immune system. It goes without saying that everyone hopes a shortcut can be found for the use of one of the vaccines under test ASAP.

Discussion around this subject should be polite. Nothing said will alter the outcome one tiny miniscule nano bit. I am truly fed up with the aggresion on these forums. Especially from the snowflakes.

Agreed BiB. I suppose it is natural for decent people to try help the sickly, the less able, and so on. But as above, the shutdown seems an extreme action.

 

[t21]

I think Brent Swain has moved to the Caribbean. There's no point seeing with this sort of person. Like Trump supporters and climate change deniers, they see conspiracy in logic and believe their dogma above all else.
But I bet he wouldn't put his money where his mouth is. Until he can show he is an epidemiologist, or is prepared to mingle unprotected in an ICU, he should really just STFU.

Shame on you. I have been through several airports in the past few weeks- surely a hotbed of infection. No symptoms, and no new cases on islands either. A million people a year die in uk anyway. BBC and social media needs better control. This is the same BBC that reported the fact that half of all school kids were below average ...

 

[geem]

So it looks like t21’s view that the world has over reacted by closing businesses, transport, etc, boils down to the fact that he is going to lose loads of money. It is now easy to understand the selfish ‘sod all those that are dying cos they are old and have pre-existing medical issues so they don't matter’ attitude. The mention of the Bentley wasnt really necessary but helps define the man

 

[sarabande]

Matt

I can't pick up anything later than end of Feb for mortality by age, but this link
says some under 40 have died.

Coronavirus Age, Sex, Demographics (COVID-19) - Worldometer

I think you are treading on very thin ice with your uncharacteristically uncaring assertions and lack of insight into the effects that CV19 is having in the rest of the world. It's real, it's here now, and and it's excessive and beyond our normal expectations of what might make us shuffle of this mortal coil.

There are some points in your second post with which I agree, but I'll bet the UK Chief Medical Officer knows the topic in depth. And he's the person the UK govt is listening to.

I think you are out of step on this one.

Remember Donne. Any mans death diminishes me, because I am involved in Mankind;

 

[Moderator]

Disagree and debate this as much as you wish, but do not carry the argument to any other poster in an abusive manner.

 

[t21]

So it looks like t21’s view that the world has over reacted by closing businesses, transport, etc, boils down to the fact that he is going to lose loads of money. It is now easy to understand the selfish ‘sod all those that are dying cos they are old and have pre-existing medical issues so they don't matter’ attitude. The mention of the Bentley wasnt really necessary but helps define the man

Er no, wrong on all counts. I mentioned the car because Webby was so utterly delighted to drive it, but seems to hate himself (and me!) since then. I’m not in business any longer but I know from experience that some will simply cease operation - government seems not to be aware of the fact that work isn’t just something to “go to” 9-5 mon-fri. I’m sure everyone has lost out, but meh, not a critical element. Money’s just a hygiene factor and not much is needed to loaf around, not really.

Hey everyone matters. But I don’t think that governments taking actions that definitely cost people their livelihoods is the best option. Is everyone hard at work making ventilators? Or have people kinda had to stay home cos all the schools are shut? And if you don’t have school-age kids, do you really fancy going out to work if lots of people aren’t doing the same?
.

 

[Zing]

There is a very small number of patients who can be "saved" by using a ventilator. Until a vaccine is developed the hospitals seem to me to be basically making the dying more comfortable.

This needs correcting. If patient need a ventilator then life will be saved by it. It doubles survival rates. They are not useless. Hospitals are not useless. A fundamental error and is misinformation. Other hospital treatments save more still. O2, antibiotics etc.

 

[t21]

Matt

I can't pick up anything later than end of Feb for mortality by age, but this link
says some under 40 have died.

Coronavirus Age, Sex, Demographics (COVID-19) - Worldometer

I think you are treading on very thin ice with your uncharacteristically uncaring assertions and lack of insight into the effects that CV19 is having in the rest of the world. It's real, it's here now, and and it's excessive and beyond our normal expectations of what might make us shuffle of this mortal coil.

There are some points in your second post with which I agree, but I'll bet the UK Chief Medical Officer knows the topic in depth. And he's the person the UK govt is listening to.

I think you are out of step on this one.

Remember Donne. Any mans death diminishes me, because I am involved in Mankind;

Oh I am definitely out of step. No worries there.

As I stated above - yes, of course I care - but I think that this shutdown looks like “action” yet at tremendous cost. Food shops are open here in St Martin and that’s about it. Seems the same gig worldwide. If the kids can’t go to school, well, hum. Maybe the grandparents will come look after them but they may not much fancy it. Actually thinking about it, I don’t much fancy going out anyway, prolly best stay home eh? So almost all companies are running on zero staff. I just got word from Pantaenius to this effect. The bigger outfits may be able to access cheap loans but the smaller ones won’t have time.

I have no doubt the CMO knows his stuff. But I think he has a too-narrow field of vision. 3,000 ish people dead so far worldwide is bad for those close to them of course.

However, 3,000 people a DAY commit suicide worldwide. Another 3,000 die in auto accidents every day. Both these figures put the death toll so far into context.

When a man dies, a chapter is not ripped from a book but merely translated into a better language. Yeah I should have looked it up but I think it is also John Donne.

I am sorry if I sounded too uncaring. Thanks for “uncharacteristically”. I bought roses for an old lady in Feb and now she’s died. However, 50% of the people to whom I gave roses DIED. You’ll just have to take my word for the fact that I gave her roses and that she’s died but it was Sally at shrimpy’s laundry and mike could never see the value in buying flowers for his wife, one of few issues on which I disagreed with him. He told me how happy she was with the roses for the whole week before she died in her sleep.

Figures we don’t have include %age of people who died of Coronavirus and were going to die within 6months anyway. The cruise ship figures indicate that it’s not a small percentage.

Add to this an uncontrolled social media and 24hour news where dissenters get this sort of treatment, as in this thread. I can see why they’ve done this, but i really feel that it’s going to need someone to undo it, and fast. Otherwise there’ll soon be no hospitals, no hospital equipment, no food, no nothing.

The governments are focussing on merely longevity, which they hope that a shutdown will preserve. I think a better yardstick by which to govern is aiming for the best possible overall quality of life for as many of the population as possible. That means undo the shutdown ASAP.

 

[webcraft]

So it looks like t21’s view that the world has over reacted by closing businesses, transport, etc, boils down to the fact that he is going to lose loads of money. It is now easy to understand the selfish ‘sod all those that are dying cos they are old and have pre-existing medical issues so they don't matter’ attitude. The mention of the Bentley wasnt really necessary but helps define the man

You have the measure of the man.


- W

 

[t21]

This needs correcting. If patient need a ventilator then life will be saved by it. It doubles survival rates. They are not useless. Hospitals are not useless. A fundamental error and is misinformation. Other hospital treatments save more still. O2, antibiotics etc.

It’s only partly incorrect? Life isn’t “saved” but always extended further. Not very much further in these instances since it is the elderly most at risk.

I fear that we can forget getting lots more ventilators, since all the shops are shut and schools closed so everyone is at home getting scared stiff by the 24hour news.

If the bans were lifted, then those able to do so could continue in business and more usefully help find a cure, either by direct contribution or simply by paying taxes doing their jobs as normal. Or at least, as long as they aren’t in travel etc industry which has just been given a long flush. I would happily start a ventilator company but nobody much fancies working with these yerknow, bans. Instead we’re all gonna visit friends and family to check they’re ok, give them a big hug and pass on some diseases I suppose.

 

[webcraft]

You may simply have to kiss a substantial chunk of your wealth goodbye, Mattie me lad - finally something you simply can't control has come along.

By the way, my partner's Avantgarde CLK 280 Merc was a far nicer car to drive.

Stay safe.

- W

 

[t21]

N

You have the measure of the man.


- W

Shame on you Nick. Let me know when you take some flowers to simply brighten up someone else’s day. When we are good unto others we are best to ourselves - a quote by Ben Franklin. In other words - Doing good stuff would make you happier. Corollary is that if you’re as angry as you seem, you are perhaps not even being pleasant, and your posts bear this out.

Wow your dad must be quite old! So maybe plenty of time for you to have a Damascene moment. Or is it a Damascene Moment? That’s when Saul sees the light in er maybe Acts 5?

 

[Zing]

It’s only partly incorrect? Life isn’t “saved” but always extended further. Not very much further in these instances since it is the elderly most at risk.

I fear that we can forget getting lots more ventilators, since all the shops are shut and schools closed so everyone is at home getting scared stiff by the 24hour news.

If the bans were lifted, then those able to do so could continue in business and more usefully help find a cure, either by direct contribution or simply by paying taxes doing their jobs as normal. Or at least, as long as they aren’t in travel etc industry which has just been given a long flush. I would happily start a ventilator company but nobody much fancies working with these yerknow, bans. Instead we’re all gonna visit friends and family to check they’re ok, give them a big hug and pass on some diseases I suppose.

True. Life is never saved in that sense. Let’s not bother eh? Close hospitals, close surgeries. Don’t waste all those years training docs. Think of all the resources that could go back into the economy. The nurse shortages? No. It’s a pointless exercise in playing a game we all lose. We need fewer nurses, not more.

 

[t21]

You may simply have to kiss a substantial chunk of your wealth goodbye, Mattie - finally something you simply can't control has come along.

Stay safe.

- W

Um, huge wealth was never a primary aim. Hence I sold out and mostly went sailing. I’m saddened that you seem to think that it was or is too important to me, cos it isn’t. Do let me know if you need help in these difficult times. My aim was to make them less terrible, not more.

M

 

[newtothis]

Shame on you. I have been through several airports in the past few weeks- surely a hotbed of infection. No symptoms, and no new cases on islands either.

So. not an epidemiologist and bottling out of the challenge to go unprotected into an ICU. Easy to talk big, isn't it? Prepared to bet that Bentley that there won't be any cases in a month's time? Thought not.

 

[webcraft]

Um, huge wealth was never a primary aim. Hence I sold out and mostly went sailing. I’m saddened that you seem to think that it was or is too important to me, cos it isn’t. Do let me know if you need help in these difficult times. My aim was to make them less terrible, not more.

M

I'm fine thanks, still broke tho' with 2 boats now. You can't help me, help yourself.

- W