Cannes Boat Show

[MapisM]

It's the fact that with V drives they can use a softer more forgiving engine mounts to reduce vibration /resonance etc.
As its the gearbox that is " hard " mounted ,that is taking the force.

Not anymore. Nowadays, there are several shaft systems allowing power transfer directly to the hull, also with straight shafts (seatorque etc.)

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Ah, ok, my first impression was correct then.
My doubt was because looking at your pic below I couldn't see the V-drives. Are they directly attached to the engine?
In principle, I tend to prefer the jackshafts used in some old Ferrettis, because that makes the shaft seals reasonably accessible, as opposed to buried under the engine...
I'd be surprised if they fitted side tanks anyway, because I've never seen them on any Ferrettis.
And rightly so, imho - at risk of being flamed by Brit builder supporters...

Actually the gyro is in an unusual position for a Ferretti. Normally they put them aft of the engines which according to Seakeeper (yes I know its not a Seakeeper) is a better position for it. A black mark for Ferretti though for the positioning of the s/b Racor filter. Yes I prefer a jackshaft between the engine and the V drive box. It makes it so much easier to get at the shaft seals
I would be amazed if Ferretti used side fuel tanks on the 450. Positioning the fuel tank(s) forward of the engines as close to the CoG as possible and as low down in the bilges as possible is part of the Ferretti design DNA

 

[Anders_P42]

On those 5 points:

2 - I agree. V drives can make good sense on plenty of designs. I don't agree the quitter cruising, unless you define that as being inside. The aft deck noise is greater with v drives, obviously, and in the Med you are more outside than inside

3. True. There is a big unknown out there with big gyros, being the frequency and cost of bearing changes, if lifting gear is needed as in the case of most installations. But this small gyro in the 450 will be lighter, wont need loads of complex lifting gear, and looks a nice installation to me. Of course the seakeepers are very well made so bearing changes should be at long intervals

4. Cummins Onan isn't cheaper than Kohler size for size. Each brand has its aficionados and Ferretti folks swear by Kohler, but most engineers rate the Cummins as better (Kubota engine is better; water pump is direct drive not belt at these sizes, and Onan has always bee the leading innovator in alternator design) but in truth it is all splitting hairs and I'd be happy with either brand if speccing a boat. As regards cost cutting, the absence of margin boards on the teak is quite something for Ferretti - it shouts cost cutting and I'm very surprised they've done it. More emotional than really important though

5. Yep, aiui, a 3.5kw inverter will drive a Seakeeper 5 very happily. If there are not big refrigeration loads also on the inverter, it seems a good move to allow stabilisation underway without running the genset. Good going

After a Google, Seakeeper are offering a two year / 2000 hour warranty. I guess for Med use where you might spend more nights at anchor that's not so much (83 days 24/7), but for day trips out 6-8 hours at a time it's decent coverage. And it's not like they will break on 2001 hours, unless they have an algorithm for that ;-)

What's the issue with margins? Is it more personal taste than technically a better way of finishing teak?

I'm not sure you'd want to run much more than Gyro and TV's through the inverter, if the alternators are 24V 80A. 3500W would be pulling 145A.

 

[Anders_P42]

Ah, ok, my first impression was correct then.
My doubt was because looking at your pic below I couldn't see the V-drives. Are they directly attached to the engine?
In principle, I tend to prefer the jackshafts used in some old Ferrettis, because that makes the shaft seals reasonably accessible, as opposed to buried under the engine...
I'd be surprised if they fitted side tanks anyway, because I've never seen them on any Ferrettis.
And rightly so, imho - at risk of being flamed by Brit builder supporters...

I don't remember seeing jack shafts, I'm sure the v-drives were attached to engine. No sign of stern glands but I didn't spend much time looking, it was 28C outside and much warmer down there.

I think I found the tanks, what's your definition of side tanks?

Hose to left of generator, disappears top left.

This photo shows it's fuel hose

I recon this is the port tank?

And some constructive criticism on master cabin, not keen on the 4th storage cabinet? Why not have three cabinets and finish at the edge of TV area? Perhaps so people don't walk off the step in to the recessed area in front of the TV?

View in to cabin, you don't trip over it but it looks strange

 

[MapisM]

I think I found the tanks, what's your definition of side tanks?

Sorry, maybe there is a more appropriate definition for them, anyway I meant tanks placed on the external sides of the engines, along the hull sides.

Ref the storage cabin, judging from your pics I would think that your guess is correct.
Not the finest bit of boat interior design I've ever seen, TBH...

 

[Portofino]

Never went on the FB stuff .Only went on Pershings Rivas and the one Itama 62 .
I must say I do not recognise that interior .perhaps @ € 670K or what ever explained why the 54 is € 1-2 M.
Yup that 4 th cabinet is daft -easy op out ??
Returning to E room looking closer @ just one pic --- well it's new but look past that and imagine every day useage -- how easy is it to see and drain the racors ?
Are there anyWIF sensors fitted ?
Are there any sight glasses with valves on those tanks ?
Where,s and how do you access the tank sump drain cock ? Well has it got one ?
Is there a fuel cut off valve (s) linked to the fire extinguisher systems ?if so where ?

Never mind the gyro bearing -once in a blue moon job !

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Ref the storage cabin, judging from your pics I would think that your guess is correct.
Not the finest bit of boat interior design I've ever seen, TBH...

Yup it seems purpose designed to trip you up before you fall down into the well behind it. One can only hope that this was a pre production prototype that was exhibited at the show. I don't really understand why there is that well in front of the bed anyway. If there is sufficient headroom at the higher level either side of the bed why didn't they carry the same floor level across in front of the bed unless there is some obstruction on the ceiling that we can't see?

 

[Anders_P42]

Yup it seems purpose designed to trip you up before you fall down into the well behind it. One can only hope that this was a pre production prototype that was exhibited at the show. I don't really understand why there is that well in front of the bed anyway. If there is sufficient headroom at the higher level either side of the bed why didn't they carry the same floor level across in front of the bed unless there is some obstruction on the ceiling that we can't see?

The ceiling is not the same height around the bed. The headroom at the side of the bed is achieved by using the dead space under the saloon seating, very cleverly done. But that does mean the end of the bed has lower ceiling, but the recess in the floor does mean you can walk around the bed without ducking under it.

 

[MapisM]

Yup it seems purpose designed to trip you up before you fall down into the well behind it. One can only hope that this was a pre production prototype that was exhibited at the show. I don't really understand why there is that well in front of the bed anyway. If there is sufficient headroom at the higher level either side of the bed why didn't they carry the same floor level across in front of the bed unless there is some obstruction on the ceiling that we can't see?

M, actually in the last of the above pics you can glimpse a lowered ceiling right above the "well".
I suspect that's because they adopted the usual trick of raising the ceiling along the bed sides using the saloon seating area, but obviously they couldn't raise the saloon floor centrally, in front of the stair going down to the cabins area.
And if my guess is correct, it implies that anyone sleeping on stbd side in the master cabin has to go down the "well" and up again to reach his/her side of the bed.
'Fiuaskme, I'd rather live without a center cabin than accept this sort of compromises, period. :disgust:
Maybe that's a must for newcomers to boating in the People's Republic, what do I know...?

 

[MapisM]

The ceiling is not the same height around the bed. The headroom at the side of the bed is achieved by using the dead space under the saloon seating, very cleverly done. But that does mean the end of the bed has lower ceiling, but the recess in the floor does mean you can walk around the bed without ducking under it.

I got a phone call while writing my previous post, and didn't see yours before posting mine.
That's exactly what I suspected, but I'm not sure to agree with your "cleverly done" bit.
It's already an old trick by now, already seen in other boats, and it's not without its drawbacks.
But as I said, each to their own!

PS: I wouldn't agree on the seating "dead space", either. Back in the days when designers aimed at exploiting all onboard space to the max regardless of what was fashionable, those would have obviously been lockers. If I would tell my swmbo that she can't use anymore all the space under the sofa, her reply wouldn't be polite, no matter how larger the cabin can be....

 

[Portofino]

From observation @ Cannes and the Ferreti preview @ Monaco the 450 was in demand .
Not quite sure of the demographics of the invites to Monaco but the F450/550 and the Pershing 5x along with new riva 44 and exsisting 52 were the most popular -followed by Pershing 62/72 .
Rest not so pop -they had to entice us on a custom line 100 and something as nobody was on it .

newF450 Curb appeal -it looks right and in proportion .The new S/skr Mh 52 is top heavey in the flesh looks a bit -i awkward .I know it s the next modal up and price point ,but in my view you have to like the look ,or fall in love with it out side before forcing yourself that inside is ok .

As said fitting a mid cab into 45 ft on shafts at that intro price will entice many .Even when nit picking re head room and floor levels ,teak trim .
It's that or pay more for IPS for a perceived lesser brand .
In the Med it's main target market this boat will sell in droves bringing many conquest sales into the Ferreti fold .
They can have a flat floor /cieling -edged teak , better access in the E room etc when they return willing to hand over bigger bucks for the next bigger boat in the Ferretti fold .
Job done !

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

The ceiling is not the same height around the bed. The headroom at the side of the bed is achieved by using the dead space under the saloon seating, very cleverly done. But that does mean the end of the bed has lower ceiling, but the recess in the floor does mean you can walk around the bed without ducking under it.

Ah OK. Then they need to think of some other design for those storage cupboards. Maybe design the end to be curved with a handrail on top?

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

In the Med it's main target market this boat will sell in droves bringing many conquest sales into the Ferreti fold .
They can have a flat floor /cieling -edged teak , better access in the E room etc when they return willing to hand over bigger bucks for the next bigger boat in the Ferretti fold .
Job done !

Yup agreed. The task of the 450 is to attract buyers into the Ferretti fold and keep them there as they move up the chain of ever bigger boats and I think it will do very well at that

 

[PowerYachtBlog]

Ferretti have sold five 450s on plan and eight Pershing 5X before Cannes started. These numbers are actually at the start of August, even before they did the event in Monaco.

The Ferretti 450 has a sensible price going for it inline with more mass produced builders. Its biggest competitor should be the Azimut 45 which is a bit cheaper but is a three year plus model, followed by Absolute 45.

Princess 49 is a bit bigger and has pods. The bigger is better always works the IPS not so much.
Princess 43 is a no brainer really, it is a smaller boat.

But its biggest strike is its competitive price, Ferretti always costed like 20% more at new, this one is virtually very much in line (5% more to Azimut and Absolute) with similar size models.
Now that will get customers at the flock, at Ferretti. Who is considered as a high premium brand in the Med, and of a higher standard to PriSsFl and AziAbs.

 

[TonyR123]

Now that will get customers at the flock, at Ferretti. Who is considered as a high premium brand in the Med, and of a higher standard to PriSsFl and AziAbs.

So is Ferretti perceived to be a better brand than say Princess? Thought Princess 49 had good quality fittings, but cannot really remember when compared to Ferretti. Although I do remember the galley tap which I thought was a nice touch.

Azimut 50 (not 45 I admit) I thought was awful for a boat that would be used in the Med. Absolute 50 Fly very similar price to Ferretti 450, althought I did prefer the Absolute. I expect more than likely due to the next size up. TBH I cannot really remember the quality of fittings between the two.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

So is Ferretti perceived to be a better brand than say Princess? .

Er yes in some markets which may explain why they can sell more boats than Princess despite charging premium prices for them

 

[PowerYachtBlog]

So is Ferretti perceived to be a better brand than say Princess? Thought Princess 49 had good quality fittings, but cannot really remember when compared to Ferretti. Although I do remember the galley tap which I thought was a nice touch.

Yep, and the perception was a lot more in the past. It actually reduced in recent years since Ferretti starting its cost reduction operation.
See transom entrance in the old Ferretti 53 versus the new ones with stainless doors.

As a side note I would not consider a high quality tap even if made of gold to be an object of superior quality.
Certain type of exterior fittings yes I would consider them to be higher.
Counter molded hatches, engine rooms yes, quality of exterior fittings, interior woods, decking, up till 2010 teak from Ferretti was 8-10 mm, from the Brits about 5 mm.
Painted hidden areas etc. Some of what I would consider those most.

Azimut 50 is not such a bad boat. I do not like its lower deck galley but then it has some important details as the large flybridge, and a passarelle which is telescopic and hidden (very unusual in a flybridge boat of this size). Its fore deck settee is still one of the best in this size. They opted to go for a semi free flybridge so people can do what they want it, chaise lounges or order it with a crane so you put a second toy. On the technical side I can say it has a lot labelled items a detail which you do not see in many European builds versus the Americans.

 

[Anders_P42]

I got a phone call while writing my previous post, and didn't see yours before posting mine.
That's exactly what I suspected, but I'm not sure to agree with your "cleverly done" bit.
It's already an old trick by now, already seen in other boats, and it's not without its drawbacks.
But as I said, each to their own!

PS: I wouldn't agree on the seating "dead space", either. Back in the days when designers aimed at exploiting all onboard space to the max regardless of what was fashionable, those would have obviously been lockers. If I would tell my swmbo that she can't use anymore all the space under the sofa, her reply wouldn't be polite, no matter how larger the cabin can be....

I thought it was cleverly done because the master cabin on this 46 footer has more headroom that Fairline 53! But I take your point it's perhaps nothing new. And yes I forgot the area under my salon seats is storing engines service spares at the moment..not dead space at all.

 

[MapisM]

I thought it was cleverly done because the master cabin on this 46 footer has more headroom that Fairline 53!

Yup, even without having seen this F450 in flesh, I guess you are right in saying that the center cabin is more cleverly done than most similar and also a bit bigger boats - not just the notorious FL53, I suppose...
Personally, I rest my case on center cabins not being worth the compromises necessary elsewhere, on anything smaller than 60 feet or so. But that's me, of course.

 

[MapisM]

See transom entrance in the old Ferretti 53 versus the new ones with stainless doors.

Absolutely. And they even offered (as an option - pretty sure at silly prices, but hey-ho!) an electrical actuator for that transom door, go figure...

PS: coming to think of it, I have a copy of the huge Ferretti options list, so I just checked it:
The 53 could be ordered with the automatic transom door for just 6825 Eur.
A bargain, considering that such option was combined with the automatic swim ladder....