Anchors on submarines

[vyv_cox]

I recall a thread on this topic a few months ago. I am currently reading a book about the various small organisations that led to the creation of the Special Boat Service and came across this account. It relates to the midget-submarine X23 taking position as a pathfinder off Sword beach immediately before D-day in 1944. X23 and its sister boat X20 were towed by trawler to about half way across the Channel, 60 miles from the French coast. At 2315 on June 4 they surfaced and moved to their position just under four miles from the coast. They then "did the most dangerous thing of all, which was to drop the anchor down". Lieutenant Booth put on his waterproof suit "came out of a hatch and went across to the bow and got the CQR anchor out of a metal box there and slung it out".

In a broadcast by the BBC they received a coded message that the landings had been postponed, so lay submerged for 24 hours in very uncomfortable conditions. They surfaced at 0445 on 6th June, rigging a white ensign, a light and a radar beacon. When the invasion fleet had passed them their orders were to report to the command ship. They could not raise the anchor and cut the rope.

 

[Sea Change]

Yes, very dangerous to spend a night anchored using a CQR!

 

[NormanS]

I recall a thread on this topic a few months ago. I am currently reading a book about the various small organisations that led to the creation of the Special Boat Service and came across this account. It relates to the midget-submarine X23 taking position as a pathfinder off Sword beach immediately before D-day in 1944. X23 and its sister boat X20 were towed by trawler to about half way across the Channel, 60 miles from the French coast. At 2315 on June 4 they surfaced and moved to their position just under four miles from the coast. They then "did the most dangerous thing of all, which was to drop the anchor down". Lieutenant Booth put on his waterproof suit "came out of a hatch and went across to the bow and got the CQR anchor out of a metal box there and slung it out".

In a broadcast by the BBC they received a coded message that the landings had been postponed, so lay submerged for 24 hours in very uncomfortable conditions. They surfaced at 0445 on 6th June, rigging a white ensign, a light and a radar beacon. When the invasion fleet had passed them their orders were to report to the command ship. They could not raise the anchor and cut the rope.

That just shows that in those far off days, there was nothing wrong with CQRs. Funny how nowadays lots of people can't get them to work.

 

[S04]

Wow, 24 hours submerged certainly must have been "uncomfortable", hats off to the crews.

In the boats I was on that period of time without surfacing or snorting was terrible and we had oxygen candles and CO2 scrubbers.

Edit: I wonder why they didn't just sit on the bottom instead of anchoring?

 

[vyv_cox]

Wow, 24 hours submerged certainly must have been "uncomfortable", hats off to the crews.

In the boats I was on that period of time without surfacing or snorting was terrible and we had oxygen candles and CO2 scrubbers.

Indeed it was. No way of replenishing air, no sewage disposal, six on board a relatively small vessel. When they opened hatches they all suffered hangover symptoms due to the sudden increase in oxygen.

 

[dgadee]

Read that. Fascinated by people who go beneath the waves. Have a book on early escape techniques.

Would never do it myself.

Bill King's writing was something else, too.

 

[ducked]

Edit: I wonder why they didn't just sit on the bottom instead of anchoring?

Submerged navigation buoys, eh? Fool em every time.

 

[capnsensible]

Wow, 24 hours submerged certainly must have been "uncomfortable", hats off to the crews.

In the boats I was on that period of time without surfacing or snorting was terrible and we had oxygen candles and CO2 scrubbers.

Edit: I wonder why they didn't just sit on the bottom instead of anchoring?

Submersibles........

 

[S04]

Submersibles........

OK you've shamed me.....

Although it's widely agreed that the transition from submersible to submarine came with the advent of the capability to snort. Well, that's my story.

 

[cpedw]

What length of scope did they use and how did they calculate it?

 

[vyv_cox]

What length of scope did they use and how did they calculate it?

The book does not say. They undertook remarkable levels of training in these craft, so no doubt they got it right

 

[dgadee]

What length of scope did they use and how did they calculate it?

Maybe just enough to stop it being swept along the sand.

The courage of those pioneers was something else.

I'm a casualty at present or would get the book details for you. I think it was the official history.

 

[BobnLesley]

That just shows that in those far off days, there was nothing wrong with CQRs. Funny how nowadays lots of people can't get them to work.

Having used several anchors over the years I found the CQR held no better or worse than anything else, it was however less forgiving of poor anchoring technique than the more modern designs.

 

[vyv_cox]

Maybe just enough to stop it being swept along the sand.

The courage of those pioneers was something else.

I'm a casualty at present or would get the book details for you. I think it was the official history.

The book I am reading is titled SBS - Silent Warriors: the authorised wartime history, by Saul David.

Apparently it was partly prepared by Paddy Ashdown, who died before it could be published.

 

[Blue Seas]

No big deal. They will all have had standard issue pipes, slippers and umbrellas.

 

[Neeves]

That just shows that in those far off days, there was nothing wrong with CQRs. Funny how nowadays lots of people can't get them to work.

When they bought them new and at the time no-one complained about Austin 7s - but then they could not even dream abut an electric MG or Lexus.

CQRs were a revelation when compared to Admiralty pattern.

Delta and Bruce gave remarkable performance against CQR and were a revelation

Spade was a revelation at the time and gave extraordinary performance to Delta

Now Viking gives extraordinary performance to Spade - and no-one buys genuine CQR's any more.

A genuine CQR, drop forged, are expensive to make to the original design. CQRs were intorduced before welding became common place and a variety of HT steels are now available - off the shelf. Of course people complain about CQRs (genuine ones will be well worn at the hinge by now) especially with the huge range of available modern anchors. We don't need to learn how to crank start a car and similarly techniques needed to set a CQR are irrelevant to today's boat owners.

Its called progress - and relegates nostalgia to old salts.

Jonathan

 

[NormanS]

When they bought them new and at the time no-one complained about Austin 7s - but then they could not even dream abut an electric MG or Lexus.

CQRs were a revelation when compared to Admiralty pattern.

Delta and Bruce gave remarkable performance against CQR and were a revelation

Spade was a revelation at the time and gave extraordinary performance to Delta

Now Viking gives extraordinary performance to Spade - and no-one buys genuine CQR's any more.

A genuine CQR, drop forged, are expensive to make to the original design. CQRs were intorduced before welding became common place and a variety of HT steels are now available - off the shelf. Of course people complain about CQRs (genuine ones will be well worn at the hinge by now) especially with the huge range of available modern anchors. We don't need to learn how to crank start a car and similarly techniques needed to set a CQR are irrelevant to today's boat owners.

Its called progress - and relegates nostalgia to old salts.

Jonathan

Do you not have a lighter side?

 

[Neeves]

Do you not have a lighter side?

Yes,

I don't believe in heavy anchors,

Ours were either aluminium alloy of thin HT steel. Heavy, or not light, is for the Luddites and should have no place on a modern yacht.

Ballast has a place, but only at the bottom of a fin keel and never in the 'ends'.

Jonathan

 

[noelex]

Ballast has a place, but only at the bottom of a fin keel and never in the 'ends'.

So have you removed the ballast from your Spade and Excel anchors .

 

[noelex]

On a more serious note, we should eternally be grateful for the bravery of those in the special boat services. My generation has been one of the few that have not experienced the sacrifices and horrors of war.