Cannes Boat Show

[vision]

The new Sunseeker Manhattan 52 hasn't "bombed" at all. I am based in Poole and have many people I know who work/manage there and there is very good feedback from the show and it looks like it will be a very good selling model for them, and why not its a lovely boat imho.

 

[PowerYachtBlog]

The new Sunseeker Manhattan 52 hasn't "bombed" at all. I am based in Poole and have many people I know who work/manage there and there is very good feedback from the show and it looks like it will be a very good selling model for them, and why not its a lovely boat imho.

By bombed up I think he is talking about the size height and so on looks to much for a 16 meter size boat. Meaning not looking sleek.

Princess South of France dealer has always sub 70 feet boats in stock at very interesting prices versus the usual price list.
Once a new model is one year past its launch you can see them coming very competitive from him.
Same goes for the American dealership.
You need to subscribe to the e-mails and you will receive a lot of goodies.

Sure far East builders will require different specs so I am sure they will need a new build slot.

 

[henryf]

Sunseeker have a very strong fan base of owners and would be owners. Sunseeker try to add value to boat ownership beyond just the physical boat with events and perks for their customers. Even from the photos I've seen and the plans it's clear to see the M52 is a leap forward and that should be enough to encourage the Sunseeker tifosi orders.

The question is how will the boat be received by fans of other brands or neutrals, will they hand over their money ?

Would I ever buy one ?

Henry

 

[henryf]

By bombed up I think he is talking about the size height and so on looks to much for a 16 meter size boat. Meaning not looking sleek.

Princess South of France dealer has always sub 70 feet boats in stock at very interesting prices versus the usual price list.
Once a new model is one year past its launch you can see them coming very competitive from him.
Same goes for the American dealership.
You need to subscribe to the e-mails and you will receive a lot of goodies.

Sure far East builders will require different specs so I am sure they will need a new build slot.

I took it to mean bombed in the failure sense.

With most manufacturers there are "Hot" and "Not so Hot" models within the line up. Rarely if ever do you see the more desirable models languishing unsold. Within the Princess line up some boats make more sense than others, some seem expensive for the little benefit they offer over smaller boats, others suffer because for just a few quid more you can get that boat which offers all the killer features. There are also occasions where the competition is particularly strong at a certain price point.

I've yet to see boats which I would consider highly desirable struggling to find a home.

What I did find interesting was seeing how hard it was to switch production around. If everyone wants to buy your 60 foot boat but the 55 foot model isn't selling you can't just build 60 footers on the 55 foot production line as I had assumed. The lead in and exit times seem to be quite long.

Many Asian buyers I saw expect to walk on board, like what they see and be cruising a week later. Some will have a boat built to spec but it's still a naive market without the boat owning history we enjoy in Europe and hence without expectations or preconceived notions.

I remember showing someone a Princess 68 and they immediately rejected it on the basis that the flooring in the master en suite wasn't as nice as the P75 we'd just been on. It took some convincing that you specify what ever flooring you want and that he could have a P68 with identical marble tiles.

The fact that price difference between the 2 boats was almost inconsequential in relative terms also had a bearing

Henry

 

[DAW]

I'm based in Monaco and have heard only generally positive feedback about the M52 from those that have visited the show and actually seen it. The usual groans from long-time boat owners about the current generation of 50-60 foot flybridges and sportscruisers all looking more like floating caravans full of ikea furniture than boats, but nothing negative about design, build quality or value of the M52 relative to any of the competition.

I know of two people who recently purchased new Predator 57s that had to wait a long time for delivery and the local dealer in SoF is quoting extended waiting times for new builds, so not sure where the concerns over the success of the P57 come from. Sunseeker London (the sales/distribution arm of Sunseeker) do not order stock boats, so any new boats they have are cancelled customer orders, which they seem happy to hold for 6-12 months before starting to discuss meaningful discounts to move them.

 

[henryf]

Sunseeker London (the sales/distribution arm of Sunseeker) do not order stock boats, so any new boats they have are cancelled customer orders, which they seem happy to hold for 6-12 months before starting to discuss meaningful discounts to move them.

If they are failed customer orders I think I'm right in saying that the process of cancelling the deal takes a little while and you can't just say right, you've lost your money. Certain steps must be taken and Sunseeker will have to do everything reasonable to mitigate losses on the part of the person who originally placed the order.

Henry

 

[Time Out]

Well that was an insanely hot Cannes !!

If there is a forum meet next Friday at SBS i shall be there.

I hear the Time Inc stand is giving away lots of free booze ....

 

[TonyR123]

also just returned from cannes and it was very hot. I have to say I was very disappointed by the Sunseeker Manhatten 52. Cant really say way, maybe they are trying to cram too much in as others have said - def off my list. However the most disappointing boat for me was the Azimut 50ft fly. Thought I would look as was voted "boat of the year 2015" - I guess in the 50ft fly category. However the interior design from about 15 years ago. How that was named boat of the year 2015 I do not know!

Biggest surprise was the ferreti 450 - alot of boat and excellent quality in under 15m. A little too small for what I am looking for but really well thought out. Of the other new boats I thought the Absolute 50 fly was very good (better than I was expecting), with the Princess 49 a typical Princess (ie very good).

 

[Portofino]

Yup in the flesh the new M H52 agree -perhaps my language of "bombed " a bit harsh -but compared to Ferretti quality of fit n finish -there's just something not quite chiming with it .

What did you make of Pershing 5X ? ---- would that work for you in the Med ?

 

[TonyR123]

My weekend was planned out. Leave early Saturday. Sunday just in case we missed anything. However Easyjet delays put paid to that and never got round to the Pershing. Didn't see some others either but can see most of those at Southampton next week. Today was seeing feretti and revisiting the absolute again as will not be at Southampton. bit gutted I didn't stay longer today.

 

[TonyR123]

Having said that about Pershing. Think I have convinced myself I still want a flybridges.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Biggest surprise was the ferreti 450 - alot of boat and excellent quality in under 15m.

Pleased to hear that. Perhaps a return to what Ferretti used to do very well which was build boats in the 40-60ft range with the same quality and attention to detail as they apply to their bigger boats. It looks like Ferretti have had a rethink on the pricing strategy too. They're never going to be the cheapest boats in the world but from what I can see their pricing is now at least in the same ball park as the others

 

[TonyR123]

from memory base price of ferretti 450 was €670k and base price of ferretti 550 was €1.2m. If I was moving from a 30ft I would probably jump at the chance for the 450, but as moving from 36ft doesn't seem quite a big enough step up. Very impressed al the same. Amazed they can fit that mid cabin on a boat that is 14m.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Amazed they can fit that mid cabin on a boat that is 14m.

And keep the boat looking relatively low profile which is something other builders can't seem to do when they are designing midships cabins into mid range boats. Of course Ferretti flybridges also tend to have tinted plexiglass coamings which is another visual trick they use to reduce the height of the boat

 

[Anders_P42]

Amazed they can fit that mid cabin on a boat that is 14m.

Agreed, clever layout of saloon helps headroom in master and use of v-drives. I'm 6' 4" and could walk both sides of master with an inch above my head. There's more master cabin headroom on 450 than P49, although more intrusion in the centre.

If you compare lower layout of 450 vs P49, they're almost identical in terms of space. Nothing gained space wise with use of IPS on P49. I presume Princess had to mount engines forward on jack shafts to keep balance correct, given the weight of the two pods hanging off the rear. Bit of a self defeating design there.

I thought finish on Princess was better, less GRP on show and higher quality materials.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

I presume Princess had to mount engines forward on jack shafts to keep balance correct, given the weight of the two pods hanging off the rear. Bit of a self defeating design there.

Agreed. The whole point of IPS is that having the engines right aft releases more space for accommodation but moving the engines forward for CoG reasons means that in effect there is no more internal accommodation space available than on boats with V drives and shafts. The much touted efficiency gains of IPS over shafts don't seem to materialise on heavy flybridge boats like these which leaves the joystick control as probably the only advantage of the P49. Maybe thats the main reason Princess went for IPS on the P49 because its an entry level boat which is presumably designed to attract new boaters into the fold and that kind of customer may just be drawn in by the ease of joystick control. Having said that I'm glad that Ferretti have stuck with shafts. Proper boats have shafts

 

[TonyR123]

the ferretti also has joystick control (on shafts) - quite a few boats do now. Ultimately I expect I will end up with IPS as most 50 footers seem to have IPS. I am not too bothered either way (although I am on shafts now so after using IPS who knows if I will wish for shafts again). IPS maintenance costs are more.

For me most important aspect is slow speed control, not out right speed and the extra internal space it usually provides. If however slow speed control and cabin space were the same for both then I would probably go shafts.

 

[jfm]

If however slow speed control ... were the same for both then I would probably go shafts.

AFAIK there is no slow speed control manoeuvre that an IPS boat can do but that a shaft boat (with good bowthruster) can't do. And indeed the shaft boat does it more elegantly every time (no foaming water, no revving engines, and no general jerking around)

 

[Anders_P42]

Agreed. The whole point of IPS is that having the engines right aft releases more space for accommodation but moving the engines forward for CoG reasons means that in effect there is no more internal accommodation space available than on boats with V drives and shafts. The much touted efficiency gains of IPS over shafts don't seem to materialise on heavy flybridge boats like these which leaves the joystick control as probably the only advantage of the P49. Maybe thats the main reason Princess went for IPS on the P49 because its an entry level boat which is presumably designed to attract new boaters into the fold and that kind of customer may just be drawn in by the ease of joystick control. Having said that I'm glad that Ferretti have stuck with shafts. Proper boats have shafts

The fuel figures published in the YBW review of P49 show 0.82mpg at 20k and 0.92 at 24k. It's more efficient but I suspect any fuel savings are wiped out by increased servicing costs unless you're doing 150-200 hours per year. As you say they must be going with IPS for wealthy first time boat owners who want an easier job berthing....

I noticed the 450 had Seakeeper installed, so I crawled in to engine room to see where they squeezed it in.

Shows how far back the engines are.

Seakeeper 5, pray it never breaks down replacement looks tricky.

11Kw genny

3500W inverter, presumably to power Gyro without having genny running underway?

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

the ferretti also has joystick control (on shafts) - quite a few boats do now. Ultimately I expect I will end up with IPS as most 50 footers seem to have IPS. I am not too bothered either way (although I am on shafts now so after using IPS who knows if I will wish for shafts again). IPS maintenance costs are more.

For me most important aspect is slow speed control, not out right speed and the extra internal space it usually provides. If however slow speed control and cabin space were the same for both then I would probably go shafts.

I dont have any experience of joystick control but from what I hear joystick control for shafts isn't as good as it is with IPS. I have to agree with jfm though. Any shaftdrive boat with good bow thruster is as controllable as a joystick IPS boat providing you make the effort to learn what it can do. Add a sternthruster and you can do pretty much anything. IMHO the small advantage that IPS joystick control might have in terms of ease of learning over traditional shaftdrive does not outweigh the advantages of shaftdrive in terms of a more solid ride at sea and ease of maintenance