Can your boat be too big?

[Quandary]

I sometimes work as a 'pilot' helping boats through the Crinan Canal and this summer there have been quite a number of 48 - 55' yachts with just a couple on board. Some have trouble just handling their warps in the canal, so I suspect that they also find sailing in confined waters hard work, even with powered winches. I wonder what they need the all extra space for?
Berthed alongside the pontoon behind Flowerdale pier a week or two back where there is now just room for two rafts of three for visitors,( the fingers are now all being used by the whale scarers) in a 33 footer, with a smaller boat outside us, when a couple in a nice Sweden Yachts 48 footer started to raft up outside our 31' neighbour. Our bow was already nearly a metre past the end of the pontoon so I asked the skipper to move off while I organized to try to make space to let him inside both of us. My wife was already a bit concerned about this as with a metal hip joint she can have problems with low pontoons next to high freeboard. The harbourmaster came down and instead directed him to go to a free mooring over at Shieldaig declaring he was too big for the pontoon. Apparently he prefers to accommodate 6 30-36 footers to just a couple of big boats.
A couple of days later we went to Portree; the majority of visitors moorings there are now rated at only 8 tons, and the couple still rated at 15 tons already had small boats on them as they are closer to shore, so a bigger boat may have to anchor in deeper water with a long way to the pier.
At Mallaig the new visitor moorings appear less than 12 m. apart so everyone bigger needs to swing in unison.
On the way home we were able to get alongside a short (7m) inside finger at Tobermory as the longer ones were all taken, though there were some visitors moorings for the longer boats.
At Glencoe our 15m. air draught, plus 1m. vhf antenna just lets us get under Ballachulish Bridge.
So if you are still lusting after that big Rassy, think if you really need it, it seems there can be disadvantages when you get past 40'. I am starting to feel quite smug!!

 

[TQA]

One of the sadder things seen in the cruising community is exactly that. A boat that is too big for the abilities of the older couple.

The break point seems around 48 feet. Above that you often see them motoring on good sailing days and the electric anchor windlass is an essential not optional luxury.

I have a light 44 footer and single hand it OK still but can see the day that I might have to downsize. Still who knows.

 

[sailorman]

One of the sadder things seen in the cruising community is exactly that. A boat that is too big for the abilities of the older couple.

The break point seems around 48 feet. Above that you often see them motoring on good sailing days and the electric anchor windlass is an essential not optional luxury.

I have a light 44 footer and single hand it OK still but can see the day that I might have to downsize. Still who knows.

i was ion Oostende a few yrs ago a youngish late 40s came in in a HR poss 48ft bow thruster n all the gear in mast furling. the took a while to moor up stern to.
nxt day an identical HR came in an old couple 70s o/b, slab reefing no thruster he backed her in with no probs at all just using forward & astern a natural who knew his boat.

 

[Blueboatman]

I bought the biggest boat that I reckoned I can sensibly singlehand and , importantly, not be or be seen as a threat to the enjoyment of other when manoeuvring and parking.
At 36 feet, around 9 ton and semi- full keel, it is a delight, cruising chute n all, but not organised enough to run the big spinnaker solo- yet?

Fingers crossed, so far so good, locks, stopping, reversing in a fashion , just fine...so far. But I don't think I would want a heavier full batten main nor heavier anchoring gear to manhandle.

One wonders how some big boats do it? They do seem heavily into 'dockmaster assist' when tieing up. Probably very sensible but do they miss the sense of independence and freedom I wonder?

 

[AIDY]

I've been amazed this year at the amount of cruising couples / blokes weekends that have no clue how to moor a boat.. and expect you to help them in.... do all the works and tei their boats up... It's shamefull.

 

[Reverend Ludd]

My answer would be no (within reason), there are only spaces too small for the size of boat.
Most examples of bad behaviour and difficulty handling a boat are from the just under 30 brigade.

 

[mateyboy]

nxt day an identical HR came in an old couple 70s o/b, slab reefing no thruster he backed her in with no probs at all just using forward & astern a natural who knew his boat.

I love watching the guys that just use forward & astern with the wheel in the same position, a real art. When I use to try it I'd be at 45deg before I knew it.

 

[Whiskey Bravo]

My answer would be no (within reason), there are only spaces too small for the size of boat.
Most examples of bad behaviour and difficulty handling a boat are from the just under 30 brigade.

Would you like to justify that comment with a few examples, as I'm sure you'll get plenty of people who wouldn't agree.

As for the original question, yes! In June we chartered from Athens with another couple who had a 33 footer. The 35' we had booked wasn't available so we were 'upgraded' to a 40', which frankly was too big for some of the smaller crowded anchorages and on the days with lighter winds, it was just too heavy to get going at a reasonable speed, whereas our friends were able to sail quite a bit faster. Of course, when the winds picked up we were able to take advantage, but overall I'd have preferred the smaller option

 

[snowleopard]

it seems there can be disadvantages when you get past 40

A man is as old as the woman he feels

40 ft isn't a problem but 23 ft beam can be a bit of an embarrassment in small harbours.

 

[ctva]

To the op, YES! Like Blueboatman when we got our present boat (34') it was the limit of what I could confidently handle 1 up as we had small children. Whilst the manoevering of boats is a skill learnt over time and I know many older people that can out manoever better than most, it is all the other things that make the difference. The power in the sheets, halyards and other controls, the size and weight of the ancilliary equipment, the ability to climb around the big rig, it just makes no sence as when it goes wrong they can not cope. And to be honest it's not an age thing as I couldn't on some of the monsters I see.

Like Quandary, I've often seen big boats having to find somewhere else to stay or being stupid in their lack of seamanship skills by wanting to tie 45 footers against smallboats. Remember Kyleakin in July last year Quandry????

I've watched over the last few decades the friends that I sailed with start in 30 footers, then to 42 footers and most ending up with 50 footers just keeping up with the Jones. One who saw the light sold his and got a wee 22 daysailer, the reason being tht his grand kids could come sailing and be involved pulling the ropes!

 

[Daisy Jones]

I do not understand why a couple wants a bigger boat than they can easily handle. You can only sit/stand/lie in one place at a time. Small is beautiful.

 

[Robin]

We sailed our 41 footer easily with just two of us for ten years and nearly 20,000mls, yet for six of those years we qualified for our free bus passes. We had no bow thruster nor felt the need, but frequently assisted a variety of boats of all sizes into berths by us, many of whom had bow thrusters too. We sold that boat in Dec 2009 but have just this month bought it's replacement, a 47 foot motor yacht with twin engines and still no bow thruster, this one is based in the USA and early next year will become our full time home. We talked to one couple we met in Virginia, both 72 years young, who owned a 60ft Defever motor yacht. They had just arrived in York River Va from Florida (around 1,200 miles) having done their annual northbound half of the snowbird run, winters in Florida Keys, summers in Chesapeake Bay. Just the two of them you understand, no extra crew, no sweat.

That said it gets harder to find visitor spots as size goes up, not just length but draught becomes a problem that limits availability. Lots of places in the UK and European waters where being too big is a problem or becomes less convenient. For us where we will be in the East Coast USA we set ourselves an upper limit of 50ft, because almost everywhere could find a space for up to that size but much above that then the ease of availability dropped markedly.

This side of the pond, marina berths haven't kept up with ever increasing boat sizes. It isn't just the lengths they can't handle but the widths because put a biggy in one berth and you can only slot a tiddler in next to it because of no room sideways. Then again many places can't handle deep draught, even St Peter Port has the real big ones anchored off outside as they can only handle one or two at most and that is on the commercial docks.

It is patronising IMO to suggest older people cannot handle bigger boats. There are plenty of examples of those who are capable, just as there are of smaller boat owners that are not.

 

[Reverend Ludd]

What is the rule that says you have to sail in pairs ?

 

[Robin]

What is the rule that says you have to sail in pairs ?

In my case they call it a marriage certificate.

 

[rotrax]

I love watching the guys that just use forward & astern with the wheel in the same position, a real art. When I use to try it I'd be at 45deg before I knew it.

Hi, I know what you mean. We have had our 37 footer for just over two years now and First mate is just getting to be good at turning her in her own length with confidence. The trick seems to be to give plenty of beans against the rudder to get the bow swinging the way you need without making too much forward progress. It is not always possible to use the old girls prop walk to port while in reverse,but if you can it helps a lot. We are normaly two handed but when we are lucky enough to find an experienced crew it takes a lot of strain off the old bones. As she is a heavy long keeler with a big rudder backing up is a challenge and requires a firm touch to get the vessel answering to the rudder and then backing off so as not to lose control of the wheel. We are still working on this one! A variable pitch prop gave a remarkable improvement in both turning and backing. Can't have a bow thruster as the holding tank is in the optimum position and first mate said the she was not having holes cut in our boat. We started with a share in a 27 footer, then we bought a 33 footer before the senior moment that led to our current boat. It is about as big as we will be able to handle in the forseeable future,and as big as we shall ever need in all other respects. It is always too big when its time to pay the berthing fees!

 

[Lakesailor]

I believe that like (was it Oscar Wilde said) people get promoted to their level of incompetence.
The same with boats. People lust after bigger (and better?) boats, Upgrading, they call it. Until they reach the size they realise they can't properly manage.

Why?

How big do you need a boat?

I'll bet most people who have upgraded a bit will look back to a previous boat as being the best they had.

 

[Twister_Ken]

I believe that like (was it Oscar Wilde said) people get promoted to their level of incompetence.

The Peter Principle, I think.

Oscar Wilde said many things, but not that.

 

[tonybannister]

My wife and I have a 9 metre we have sailed in the med for 12 years. We used to talk about a bigger boat but have stopped now, but if I was starting out I would go for something a bit bigger. We have never been turned away from a marina or harbour. I know many people with bigger boats who have been turned away especially those with boats over 50 foot. I can fit into every berth in any marina. 60 footers can only fit into a few and those berths are usually taken by people that do not move. I pay a fraction of the mooring fees of the larger boats yet the marina provides almost the same facilities for boats moored stern to. The berth I get is usually closer to the marina facilities and right inside in a more protected position.
Tony - Red Marlin

 

[Fatfish]

Even at 32 feet I think our boat is too big for us, mostly in winter when all the antifouling and hull washing needs doing!

In normal sailing, in harbour and manoeuvring the length is perfect. Sailing with friends, an aft cabin and a bit more space would be nice but not essential.

In a gale, a bigger boat would be nicer, but we solved the problem by not going sailing in gales.

No I think we have the right sized boat, except when we've had a row, then no boat is big enough.

May be a soild soundproofed Hr is the solution after all?

 

[snowleopard]

There are two issues here - are the crew competent to handle a boat of that size and is it too big to park.

On the handling issue, first there is the physical strength to handle the rig. I manage my present 40 footer solo with no problems but I helped a friend sail his 55 ft version of the same boat & rig and it was a struggle for 2 of us.

Then there is berthing. The difference between a 30 footer and a 50 when berthing are that you can fend off a 30 but will break bones doing the same on a 50. Also there is the size of the bills when you get it wrong.