Can anyone cure me of my prejudice against wheel steering?

[basic]

I am always thinking of the options for 'the next boat', as I think many of us do. I am thinking long term trips - round UK, Atlantic islands etc. up to 33 feet, quite possibly long keel (think Nic 31, Vancouver 32, Tradewind 33). However, there are plenty of perfectly respectable boats which I rule out because they have wheel steering and I have been trying to rationalise my reasons for doing so. I like tillers for the sense of a direct connection with the boat and the water flowing past. Also the lack of an obstruction in the middle of the cockpit, the ease of connection to wind vane self steering and simplicity of the engineering involved. I think it is possibly the latter point which concerns me most about wheel steering - all the linkages, gears, connections and bearings which simply represent something else to maintain and potentially go wrong at inconvenient times. There is so much less to go wrong with a stick of wood and its connection to the rudder. Am I wrong? Should I be adding Moody and Scanmar 33s to my list?

I sail lots of boats with wheel steering and am always glad to get back to the tiller on my Barbican 33. Easy to handle winches, Easy and quick to step ashore with lines. ( I am always single handed.) Better feel for trimming the sails. Strong construction with less engineering to go wrong. Pendulum servo self steering no problem.I generally steer from leeward looking under the genoa so have good all round vision. Wheel steering. No thanks Would only consider it on much larger boat. My opinion.

 

[maby]

Ariam came with the three main instruments on the binnacle, which was a crappy place for them because everyone was always asking the helmsman "how fast are we going?" or "how much water is there?". If the helmsman was looking ahead at where he was going, there was no chance of anyone else noticing the falling depth...

I moved wind, speed and depth to the hatch garage, and put the main autopilot controller on the binnacle instead. This can be programmed to show any one of the main three items, so the helmsman can have his own personal depth readout if (say) people are standing in front of the main one getting the sails stowed on the way into harbour.

...

Pete

I did the same on our 33i, but we don't have a hatch garage on the Sense. Even if we did, the helmsman would need binoculars to read standard instruments there. I have an experimental web site running on a Raspberry Pi in the electronics bay that presents all sorts of instrumentation through an HTML5 page that can be viewed on any modern smartphone or tablet via WiFi - if the crew want to know how fast we are going, they can use their phones.

 

[maby]

I sail lots of boats with wheel steering and am always glad to get back to the tiller on my Barbican 33. Easy to handle winches, Easy and quick to step ashore with lines. ( I am always single handed.) Better feel for trimming the sails. Strong construction with less engineering to go wrong. Pendulum servo self steering no problem.I generally steer from leeward looking under the genoa so have good all round vision. Wheel steering. No thanks Would only consider it on much larger boat. My opinion.

As I explained above, I'm a fan of wheel steering, but I agree that it is only suitable for larger boats. It can be ok on a 33, but I don't think it works on anything smaller.

 

[jerrytug]

I sail lots of boats with wheel steering and am always glad to get back to the tiller on my Barbican 33. Easy to handle winches, Easy and quick to step ashore with lines. ( I am always single handed.) Better feel for trimming the sails. Strong construction with less engineering to go wrong. Pendulum servo self steering no problem.I generally steer from leeward looking under the genoa so have good all round vision. Wheel steering. No thanks Would only consider it on much larger boat. My opinion.

Not only your opinion, it sounds like an ideal set-up to me as well!

Yet another disadvantage of wheel steering is that you can't tell where the rudder is pointing by glancing at the wheel.

All ships, from tug size upwards, have large rudder position indicators right in front of any steering position, and believe me these vital, and heavily engineered, devices are always tested, by eg MCA or Lloyds surveyors, and if they are broken it will result in a large 'stop note'. *
I wonder why?

Yet, on wheel steered yachts, you will be lucky to get a fancy whipping round the rim, which is never at the top when the rudder is central anyway!

(*personal experience)

 

[prv]

if the crew want to know how fast we are going, they can use their phones.

It's a different world

Pete

 

[Concerto]

So the OP is worried about having a wheel. Well from my experience, most yachts above 32/33ft have wheels and those under that have tillers. It is not just about cost, but a tiller on anything larger becomes very very powerful. So using a tiller becomes hard on the arms, as mentioned by other posters. I have sailed on numerous boats from 22ft up to 60ft, with tillers and wheels, so I am talking from experience.

I currently have a Westerly Fulmar with tiller steering and due to its excellent balance when sailing, I can let the tiller go for a short period and it will continue sailing straight on most points of sail. Fitting the Autohelm is a pain for a short job. Whilst sailing singlehanded, tacking is a combination of letting the helm go and then steering with a foot whilst grinding the winch. If I had a wheel it would be easier to set on the new course and almost certainly not deviate, so making taking easier.

Every boat has a different feel according to the turning ratio and the size of the wheel. Converting to a wheel does not take much if you drive a car, you want to to port then turn left - easy. Wheel steering is certainly easier to learn steering for a beginner. If I was looking for a boat larger than my Fulmar I would not consider a tiller, even though I love using a tiller.

There are many advantages of having a wheel. Engine controls close to your hand is better than reaching down or using a foot. Having the instruments and compass directly in front of you is a bonus if you eyesight is not perfect. Reversing becomes very easy if you stand in front of the wheel and look aft, it seems natural. The table folding down in front of the pedestal can be so useful, even sailing down wind. You might even have a couple of cup holders built in. As for it dividing the cockpit, you just work around it as I usually stand on the seats to move forward anyway.

So OP dicide on the boat you like and you will soon find it it is wheel steered, you will very quickly recognise the benefits.

 

[maby]

It's a different world

Pete

About fifty quids' worth of bits and a few hours hacking Python code!

 

[Storyline]

.....
I also put a radio remote and a second small plotter on the binnacle, where they are extremely useful.
.....

Thank you !

The new VHF we got came with a 'free' remote commander handset and I have been thinking ever since where to put it - in our cabin, in the cockpit - but where ?

Of course, on the side of the binnacle - why on earth did I not think of that !

 

[Bav34]

Not only your opinion, it sounds like an ideal set-up to me as well!

Yet another disadvantage of wheel steering is that you can't tell where the rudder is pointing by glancing at the wheel.

Yet, on wheel steered yachts, you will be lucky to get a fancy whipping round the rim, which is never at the top when the rudder is central anyway!

(*personal experience)

Oh dear. I give in.

It's funny how two people can live in parallel universes

Ooh, I just remembered, my Autopilot has a rudder indicator. Never use it as I know where I'm steering.

 

[prv]

Of course, on the side of the binnacle - why on earth did I not think of that !

Why on earth indeed?

If it's possible, it would be better to mount it on the face of the binnacle so that you can see the screen. With modern radios and DSC, I find I look at the screen quite a bit, and it's convenient not to have to pick it up to look at it. Since remote handsets usually have buttons for volume and squelch rather than a simple knob, even making those adjustments can require you to look at what you're doing.

Pete

 

[Houleaux]

Incidentally, the gearbox comes in when you have two wheels on the larger boats. My gearbox (well that's what I call it) on a Bavaria 44 fell to pieces twice in four years.

On the plus side, as I recall it was the gearbox that stopped the rudder falling out of that boat when the retaining nut at the top of the shaft undid itself...

 

[flaming]

As an aside to an interesting discussion. It's not actually size of boat that most influences the tiller/wheel choice but displacement. For example, anyone who ever sailed sunsail's first fleet, the tiller steered sun fast 36s would be quick to tell you that the tiller was a big mistake. Those things were nearly uncontrollable downwind in a blow. But that's an 8 or 9 tonne boat. TP52s are now all tiller. They are in fact under 7 tonnes... All the new fast boats we're seeing in the 40 foot size range are tiller steered. Unless they're predominantly offshore boats - where crew fatigue becomes an issue. Even the new 72foot Ran is tiller steered inshore, but reverts to a wheel for offshore work.

Tillers in general give much better feel and allow more rapid helm inputs, at the expense of being more tiring and less handy in a marina.

Though to be fair, when you're talking about cruising boats, there's wheels, and there's wheels if you see what I mean.

 

[Storyline]

Why on earth indeed?

If it's possible, it would be better to mount it on the face of the binnacle so that you can see the screen. With modern radios and DSC, I find I look at the screen quite a bit, and it's convenient not to have to pick it up to look at it. Since remote handsets usually have buttons for volume and squelch rather than a simple knob, even making those adjustments can require you to look at what you're doing.

Pete

Yes, good idea, I will put it on the forward facing surface so that anyone sitting ahead of the wheel will have it easily available to see. The only slight drawback is I will have to lean over the binnacle to pick it up but would have to do that anyway even if it was on the side. Goes against the grain to put your arm through the wheel spokes ! Fortunately our wheel is not one of the humongous ones found on racing boats. In fact we are so old fashioned we only have one wheel

 

[maby]

...
. In fact we are so old fashioned we only have one wheel

Dear lord, how do you hold your head up in public???

 

[jerrytug]

Oh dear. I give in.

It's funny how two people can live in parallel universes

Ooh, I just remembered, my Autopilot has a rudder indicator. Never use it as I know where I'm steering.

I'm not trying to best you Bav and I don't want anybody to 'give in', but I have my views and reasons for them.

( I did my YM on a Bav 36 by the way, it was a great boat, apart from the incredibly twitchy WHEEL STEERING, but that's just a coincidence which I had forgotten.. until now )

 

[prv]

Yes, good idea, I will put it on the forward facing surface so that anyone sitting ahead of the wheel will have it easily available to see.

Hmm, I actually meant to put it on the top/aft face where the helmsman can see it, but whatever works for you

Pete

 

[Woodlouse]

Thank you !

The new VHF we got came with a 'free' remote commander handset and I have been thinking ever since where to put it - in our cabin, in the cockpit - but where ?

Of course, on the side of the binnacle - why on earth did I not think of that !

Not wanting to crush your enthusiasm, but remember that your radio handset will have a speaker in it, and therefore a magnet. Check to see what it'll do to your compass before fixing it to the binnacle for all eternity.

 

[Woodlouse]

As an aside to an interesting discussion. It's not actually size of boat that most influences the tiller/wheel choice but displacement. For example, anyone who ever sailed sunsail's first fleet, the tiller steered sun fast 36s would be quick to tell you that the tiller was a big mistake. Those things were nearly uncontrollable downwind in a blow. But that's an 8 or 9 tonne boat. TP52s are now all tiller. They are in fact under 7 tonnes... All the new fast boats we're seeing in the 40 foot size range are tiller steered. Unless they're predominantly offshore boats - where crew fatigue becomes an issue. Even the new 72foot Ran is tiller steered inshore, but reverts to a wheel for offshore work.

Tillers in general give much better feel and allow more rapid helm inputs, at the expense of being more tiring and less handy in a marina.

Though to be fair, when you're talking about cruising boats, there's wheels, and there's wheels if you see what I mean.

Pretty sure most if not all of the French Open 60's are still tiller steered. It was certainly the case a few years back. I think weight has an important part to play in it, a wheel system is going to weigh a lot more than a tiller, however once you get to bigger boats the tiller gets longer and the arc it swings starts to take up a lot of space in the cockpit. Swings and roundabouts really if you'll pardon the phrase.

 

[sailorman]

Pretty sure most if not all of the French Open 60's are still tiller steered. It was certainly the case a few years back. I think weight has an important part to play in it, a wheel system is going to weigh a lot more than a tiller, however once you get to bigger boats the tiller gets longer and the arc it swings starts to take up a lot of space in the cockpit. Swings and roundabouts really if you'll pardon the phrase.

But dont they have an under deck AP

 

[Bav34]

I'm not trying to best you Bav and I don't want anybody to 'give in', but I have my views and reasons for them.

It's really not a problem Jerry. The OP is looking for the pro's and cons of wheel steering. The points you and others have made are very valid, yes the wheel can cut off access to the cockpit, yes the feedback might not be as direct as a tiller and yes there is more to go wrong.

I'm just giving the experience of my particular boat which is backed up with many miles sailed on a Whitbread Challenge boat (50 or 60 feet, I can't remember,) down to a Bav 30 with a wheel.

Lots of boats in between, tiller and wheel, some good, some bad.