Can anyone cure me of my prejudice against wheel steering?

[Sans Bateau]

I have sailed with both cable wheel steering and rod wheel steering which my own boat has, with plenty of feel. Some of the comments about lack of feel may well stem for experience of a boat with an oversized wheel and high geared cable system. I believe cables can stretch or slip which will add to the poor experience. But bad maintenance should not condemn the boat. Also, any boat can have controls badly positioned. On my boat, behind the wheel, I can hand the genoa winches, the main sheet, the traveller and the back stay, admittedly I do have to put the autohlem on to go forward to adjust the outhaul, kicker or genoa halyard tension.

You might sail a badly set up wheel steered boat and hate it, but thats not to say all wheel steered boats are badly thought out though.

 

[Tranona]

OK, assuming I become convinced that wheel steering is worth considering, which systems are the ones to look for? Whitlock seems to be well regarded, any others, and what to avoid?

Avoid hydraulics. Despite comments above Whitlock systems are fine if inspected for wear and kept adjusted. arguably rod steering is better as there is a more direct physical link, but not easy to fit on many boats because other bits get in the way of the linkage. Jefa seems to have taken a big share of the market recently, but you won't find it on older boats very often.

 

[jerrytug]

That all sounds fine, but a wheel is still in between the helmsman and the sheets, and their winches, on almost all designs, except the ones with wheels you turn facing backwards if you know what I mean.

So, even a totally reliable wheel, with perfect feel, makes it tricky, at best, for the helmsman to trim the sheets or tack.

I would love to be shown wrong though, there are lots of great yachts available ('pre-loved') in either form, especially long-keelers such as Rustlers and Tradewinds.

edit Galadriel I missed your post about access to sheets etc

 

[lw395]

That all sounds fine, but a wheel is still in between the helmsman and the sheets, and their winches, on almost all designs, except the ones with wheels you turn facing backwards if you know what I mean.

......

True on some boats.
On others, you can steer sitting alongside the wheel, with good access to main and jib sheets.
I like big wheels for this.

There are some rubbish boats out there where you can reach anything from any viable steering position, but there are rubbish boats with tillers too.
Or maybe some boats are not intended to be actually sailed with a crew of 1 or two?

 

[Bav34]

That all sounds fine, but a wheel is still in between the helmsman and the sheets, and their winches, on almost all designs, except the ones with wheels you turn facing backwards if you know what I mean.

So, even a totally reliable wheel, with perfect feel, makes it tricky, at best, for the helmsman to trim the sheets or tack.

I would love to be shown wrong though, there are lots of great yachts available ('pre-loved') in either form, especially long-keelers such as Rustlers and Tradewinds.

edit Galadriel I missed your post about access to sheets etc

Wheel. Winch. Sheets.

Usually don't even involve my wife. Autopilot on, autotack, release working sheet, new sheet on self-tailer, 10 degrees up on autopilot. Done.

 

[Storyline]

Or if your boat is well trimmed and balanced, you can take both hands off the wheel to trim sails, drink coffee, eat sandwiches or even take a walk round the deck.

Exactly, we occasionally think George is engaged only to realise the boat is sailing herself.

However a tiller is much better to learn to sail with as no matter how well the wheel is linked a tiller provides more feedback.

Have a wheel now and would definitely not want to go back, as others have said, if motoring or if it is raining then it is just so handy to engage the clutch and press a button.

 

[jerrytug]

Very interesting thanks for the info and pictures.

 

[Searush]

That all sounds fine, but a wheel is still in between the helmsman and the sheets, and their winches, on almost all designs, except the ones with wheels you turn facing backwards if you know what I mean.

So, even a totally reliable wheel, with perfect feel, makes it tricky, at best, for the helmsman to trim the sheets or tack.

I would love to be shown wrong though, there are lots of great yachts available ('pre-loved') in either form, especially long-keelers such as Rustlers and Tradewinds.

edit Galadriel I missed your post about access to sheets etc

I have been known to sit in front of the wheel so I can steer & trim at the same time, but with a biggish genny & a heavy boat trimming is often a two handed job anyway. It is also surprisingly easy to turn a wheel the wrong way when sat in front of it, it feels like it should behave like a tiller, but it doesn't, it goes the other way, which is blatantly obvious when stood behind it, but less so when sat in front reaching out as if to a tiller.

 

[Bav34]

Exactly, we occasionally think George is engaged only to realise the boat is sailing herself

Ours is Albert. George is the GPS. Kids eh !

 

[prv]

I like the fact that I can walk away from the wheel to adjust, lower or raise a sail or put the kettle on, set up the anchor & chain etc etc & she will hold her course reasonably well. Tillers can flop about all over the place unless restrained by lashings & or bungee.

Sounds like your wheel system is too stiff!

I knew a bloke whose boat had a slightly bent rudder stock, giving the same effect to his tiller. He thought it was a good thing, for similar reasons.

Pete

 

[maby]

Wheel steering goes with large boats - the 33s that you are referring to are probably at the bottom end of the size range. In a large cockpit, it isn't an unacceptable block on moving around.

Our first and second boats were tiller steering - I was very pleased to see the back of it when we bought the Sun Odyssey 33i. But your tastes are different to mine and you probably will not attach importance to the things I regard as key advantages. I definitely wanted the walk-through transom - which really is not possible with a tiller. I also wanted the throttle up high so that I could get to it without having to crouch down in the cockpit when parking the boat. Not all wheel steered boats offer that, but it really is impossible with a tiller. Apart from giving you a place for the throttle, binnacle also gives you a place for all your instruments - again important to me, but possibly not to you.

You are certainly right that the wheel carries with it a lot more mechanism to go wrong, but all the wheel steered boats I've ever seen have the option of an emergency tiller if the linkage fails.

 

[mainsail1]

Quite agree. Whitlock are well known for being some cheapo company who manufacture things from the Chinese tin. Or not.

Ps. Still trying to find a gearbox, thought they may have left it off my boat but apparently not.

http://www.lewmar.com/product-listing.asp?action=search&type=78

Sorry if I hurt your feelings about your Bavaria. It's just that I have had four of them over the years and the steering has been a problem too often for my liking, but I am sure yours is just fine. Incidentally, the gearbox comes in when you have two wheels on the larger boats. My gearbox (well that's what I call it) on a Bavaria 44 fell to pieces twice in four years.

 

[Searush]

Sounds like your wheel system is too stiff!

I knew a bloke whose boat had a slightly bent rudder stock, giving the same effect to his tiller. He thought it was a good thing, for similar reasons.

Pete

It is a bit stiff at the moment, as it is awaiting a little tlc & lubrication, it's a few years since I last did it. But even when it spins lightly, the gearing means that it will hold a course if sails are reasonably balanced or I am motoring.

 

[Bav34]

Sorry if I hurt your feelings about your Bavaria. It's just that I have had four of them over the years and the steering has been a problem too often for my liking, but I am sure yours is just fine. Incidentally, the gearbox comes in when you have two wheels on the larger boats. My gearbox (well that's what I call it) on a Bavaria 44 fell to pieces twice in four years.

Feelings not hurt at all. I know my steering setup. Horizontal shaft. Vertical chain drive down to horizontal wires connected to massively over-engineered quadrant.

Each year I take out a small panel and grease any friction points. I don't know why, the previous years grease is still there. 5 minute job. If there was any slack in the cables it looks as though I would simply undo a locking nut that backs onto an adjusting nut and, er, do it up. 13 years on I still haven't had to do it.

 

[prv]

binnacle also gives you a place for all your instruments - again important to me, but possibly not to you.

Ariam came with the three main instruments on the binnacle, which was a crappy place for them because everyone was always asking the helmsman "how fast are we going?" or "how much water is there?". If the helmsman was looking ahead at where he was going, there was no chance of anyone else noticing the falling depth...

I moved wind, speed and depth to the hatch garage, and put the main autopilot controller on the binnacle instead. This can be programmed to show any one of the main three items, so the helmsman can have his own personal depth readout if (say) people are standing in front of the main one getting the sails stowed on the way into harbour.

I also put a radio remote and a second small plotter on the binnacle, where they are extremely useful. But then again, with Kindred Spirit's tiller, I could steer from the front of the cockpit and use the main VHF and (if we had had one) the main plotter.

You are certainly right that the wheel carries with it a lot more mechanism to go wrong, but all the wheel steered boats I've ever seen have the option of an emergency tiller if the linkage fails.

True - though I don't fancy trying to get mine out of the bottom of the locker and connected up, with the boat yawing about and the rudder stock jerking from side to side as I'm trying to put a bolt through it. Fortunately I shouldn't have to, as I can just press the "Auto" button and George will hold it all steady. That's a big part of the reason I upgraded from a rattly plastic wheelpilot to a proper below-decks drive.

Pete

 

[Sans Bateau]

Pete, I suspect your steering is rod, the same as mine. What model of 'george' did you fit?

 

[Jamesuk]

It's a lot easier to helm with a wheel in bad weather

Its also easier to teach new people to steer.

 

[Bav34]

True - though I don't fancy trying to get mine out of the bottom of the locker and connected up, with the boat yawing about and the rudder stock jerking from side to side as I'm trying to put a bolt through

Pete

Well that's all awfully dramatic. My thoughts have always been that if a cable or pulley failed I would simply put the steering over to the working side and heave-to. If say the chain sprocket, what?, jumped off because of poor adjustment (but see above) then I would take the rear seat out, open the locker where the emergency tiller is clipped high up and accessible, put the box section over the rudder post and, what, 60 seconds after identifying I had no steering I'm back in control.

The box section is deep enough to stay on the tiller post without the nut and bolt but I would certainly be back in control very quickly before I got them in place.

 

[prv]

Pete, I suspect your steering is rod, the same as mine. What model of 'george' did you fit?

Nope, it's cable, running through sleeves (like a very large Bowden cable) rather than around sheaves.

Most of the autopilot stayed the same (it's an S1 brain and associated Raymarine gubbins) but I replaced the wheel drive with a secondhand Type 1 linear drive from eBay. It was claimed to be ex-demo, shop use only, though I'm not certain that's true. I opened it up and inspected the innards before fitting it; there was a small circlip missing but I fitted a replacement and all is now in good order.

Even with the same brain and sensors, the pilot now steers much better. I think it's due to the complete elimination of the backlash in the plastic drive and the cable system; with a direct connection to the rudder stock the smallest movement takes effect instantly. And as I mentioned, it gives us an instant backup steering arrangement. £450 well spent, I think.

Pete

 

[prv]

I would take the rear seat out, open the locker where the emergency tiller is clipped high up and accessible, put the box section over the rudder post and, what, 60 seconds after identifying I had no steering I'm back in control.

Unfortunately mine is not so well designed. The rudder stock emerges on deck behind the cockpit, with a little GRP "hat" on it that needs a screwdriver to remove. The stock itself is a round bar, and the end of the tiller is a rather unconvincing y-shaped prong, so it's only the bolt that links the two together, and there's no particular means (unlike your box section) to line the hole up ready for it.

The tiller should of course be stowed somewhere accessible, but until I get round to the locker refit, it's just chucked in and tends to migrate to the bottom.

Hence my plan is to steer most of the way home on auto, and only use the tiller for final manoeuvering.

Pete