Can anyone cure me of my prejudice against wheel steering?

[lpdsn]

It's no big deal - your brain very quickly learns how to adjust back and forth between wheel and tiller.

It is easier to steer more precisely with a tiller, but an experienced helm can do it just as well with a wheel. You just have to focus on not oversteering rather than relying on the physical feedback from the tiller.

It's a lot easier to get novice crew to steer with a wheel - albeit by the time they've learnt not to oversteer they could've learnt to use a tiller.

The systems aren't that failure prone. There are two gotchas in my experience - leading the steering cables over blocks that are too small increases the wear on them (make the curves as large a radius as you can manage) and cast Aluminium quadrants are prone to shattering. I'd never again fit a cast Al quadrant. I replaced the last with a machined Duralium one.

 

[dunedin]

I think the "feel" issue of a wheel is probably overstated as an issue.

A good wheel steering, ideally like ours direct rod linkage rather than any cables, and a large (over 1m) can be very precise - as good as most tlllers if using a tiller extension (and I would never consider sailing a tiller steered boat without using a tiller extension upwind)

The overall hull, keel and rudder layout will have most impact on responsiveness. A fin keel, spade rudder and wheel will almost always feel more direct and sporty than a long keel tiller stered boat.
I suspect often what is being referred to as "feel" on traditional boats is really more heavy weight and weather helm in many cases, rather than light touch

 

[snooks]

Tillers are tillers, there's very little you can change, or vary to adjust the feel of them from boat to boat. The feel of them is more down to the deign of the boat. Wheels on the other hand can vary enormously. From the size of the wheel, to the gearing, to the linkage etc. it all plays a part

Hydraulic are usually found on centre cockpit boats or where the wheel is far from the quadrant, it fulfils the need but it robs the helm of feedback.

Cable can be good and can also be found on centre cockpit boats. If it has play in the system it can feel a bit unresponsive, and can also have the tendency to flick off if you're in reverse and you move the helm from one side to the other - with a tiller you'd be flung across the cockpit in the same situation.....but a well tuned system is good or very good.

My personal favourite system is Jefa, it just feels right, on every boat I've sailed it has been good, some times excellent, sometimes more responsive than a tiller and silky smooth. Some times it's rod, others it's cable and chain, whichever it is good.

However this sort of system is only really found on new boats.

One advantage of wheels for the helm is the ability to sit in a number of different positions and switch from windward to leeward in a second.

Twin wheels can work well, or be haunted by an aftershock as the second wheel catches up, or its momentum feeds back to the when you're on, carbon wheels reduce this, but it's not an issue with a good steering system in the first place.

 

[RupertW]

The systems aren't that failure prone. There are two gotchas in my experience - leading the steering cables over blocks that are too small increases the wear on them (make the curves as large a radius as you can manage) and cast Aluminium quadrants are prone to shattering. I'd never again fit a cast Al quadrant. I replaced the last with a machined Duralium one.

And if you own a Jeanneau there's a problem of the beam that holds the rudder shaft rusting to the point of collapsing which happened to us on an overnight passage this Easter. Fortunately the quadrant coped with the twisted and distorted steering wires and the steering more or less worked with a horrible grinding sound. Water dripping through the closed opening to the emergency tiller pools on the upturned I beam.

Below decks Autohelm no better than the wheel and the emergency tiller wouldn't have been able to reach as the shaft had dropped a few inches.

 

[grumpy_o_g]

Tillers are tillers, there's very little you can change, or vary to adjust the feel of them from boat to boat. The feel of them is more down to the deign of the boat. Wheels on the other hand can vary enormously.

Got to disagree with that - you can change the feel of the tiller tremendously by changing the shape of the rudder, especially if it's balanced, which can be as easy as changing the steering on a wheel-steered boat. You can also change the feel by changing or even just tweaking the rig. Mast rake, sail trim, all forms of tweaking and tuning can change a boat's feel and behaviour. I know a boat that was transformed by adding a couple of cushions and moving the block and winch for the mainsheet from the port quarter to a little further forward. All it did was meant you could actually sit comfortably on the coaming or seat and move the tiller through a decent range whilst being comfortable.

I think I know what you mean by it being down to the design of the boat but let's be reasonable here, most of us consider the size of the wheel, the gearing, the linkage, etc. to be part of the design of the boat as well.

 

[pmagowan]

I am a tiller man. I love the feel and the feedback and have never really felt I was sailing when using a wheel. I don't see why a tiller should be hard work. If it is then you have not got the boat trimmed properly. This is the whole point of 'feel' that a tiller gives you. You can feel it if the boat needs adjusted and if you can't be bothered to trim the sails the. You will have to work harder. Perhaps a wheel is easier because you simply plough on regardless without getting this feedback.

Also I don't understand why size should be a problem. A tiller is a lever so it should be light in the hand and easy to use. It can also be balanced by having some rudder forward of the pivot. If I want to eat lunch while under way I put Christopher Bungy on duty. The boat will sail straight with the tiller bungied to the centre. I also steer with my legs with the tiller in between in what can appear slightly rude! I can then keep my hands warm in my pockets.

 

[snooks]

You can feel it if the boat needs adjusted and if you can't be bothered to trim the sails the. You will have to work harder. Perhaps a wheel is easier because you simply plough on regardless without getting this feedback.

Ah but a good wheel system does give you feed back, you feel the loads and you feel it load up.

 

[snooks]

Got to disagree with that - you can change the feel of the tiller tremendously by changing the shape of the rudder, especially if it's balanced, which can be as easy as changing the steering on a wheel-steered boat. You can also change the feel by changing or even just tweaking the rig. Mast rake, sail trim, all forms of tweaking and tuning can change a boat's feel and behaviour. I know a boat that was transformed by adding a couple of cushions and moving the block and winch for the mainsheet from the port quarter to a little further forward. All it did was meant you could actually sit comfortably on the coaming or seat and move the tiller through a decent range whilst being comfortable.

I think I know what you mean by it being down to the design of the boat but let's be reasonable here, most of us consider the size of the wheel, the gearing, the linkage, etc. to be part of the design of the boat as well.

My point is that a tiller is a direct link to the top of the rudder. You cannot change anything between your hand and the rudder blade (with the exception of the Rustler 33) you cannot adjust the gearing of the system 10 degrees of movement of the tiller giver 10 degrees of movement in the rudder blade. However with a wheel, a 1/4 turn of the wheel does not mean the the rudder blade will rotate by the same amount on all boats.

But people without experiencing many systems may think all wheels are the same and they are not. There are so many variables that to say wheels are this and that is usually down to the installation, slack in the system or the drive train.

 

[Storyline]

Hmm, I actually meant to put it on the top/aft face where the helmsman can see it, but whatever works for you

Pete

Assume you have some kind of nav pod which we don't. As you say above, having a binnacle with a wheel gives so many more options even if it is just to mount your primary steering compass (not that it gets a look in these days !).

Echo another point earlier in the thread that a tiller is so much harder work going upwind. Remember once helming with a bad back and it was near impossible in the gusts even with an experienced mainsheet trimmer.

 

[knuterikt]

Sounds like your wheel system is too stiff!

I knew a bloke whose boat had a slightly bent rudder stock, giving the same effect to his tiller. He thought it was a good thing, for similar reasons.

Pete

Most wheel steering systems have a friction brake so you can easily set the friction you need/like.

 

[knuterikt]

I too prefer a tiller for the "feel" of the boat and the space in the cockpit. However I also like a centre cockpit for the space an aft cabin provides so I guess I'm stuck with a wheel.

Comparing the feel of a tiller withe feel of a wheel on a centre cockpit with unknown steering system is a bit unfair isn't it?

There are lots of different wheel systems around.
Hydraulic - Often used on centre cockpit - the worst there is..

Jefa make good steering systems and have a wide range of solutions, have been used on Scandinavian boats for a while.
You can read about the different systems here http://www.jefa.com/steering/steering.htm

 

[KellysEye]

>It's a lot easier to helm with a wheel in bad weather

It is indeed, also it is also easier to fit an autopilot. The best thing is a wind vane it acts as another crew member, is on watch 24 hours a day, and doesn't eat anything. Ours was Hydrovane and to get a wind vane to work you must balance the boat.

 

[[70521]]

As long as it is only one wheel.

I've been converted, even though my current boat is tiller. I just find it more comfortable.

 

[pmagowan]

Surely you can fit a clutched autopilot down below to a tiller based system just the same as a wheel based one. Bottom line is that the extra efoort of using a tiller IS the 'feel'. That feedback is what a wheel filters out, no matter how good it is. If the system is balanced, both the rudder, sails and tiller, then I can't see that a tiller is really any disadvantage. My tiller pulls out of the rudder stock and can be set on the side decks to have a completely clear cockpit. You can also have a binnacle with a tiller. In many points of sail I can let go of the tiller and the boat will happily sail on for a few minutes before slowly rounding up.

 

[maby]

Surely you can fit a clutched autopilot down below to a tiller based system just the same as a wheel based one. Bottom line is that the extra efoort of using a tiller IS the 'feel'. That feedback is what a wheel filters out, no matter how good it is. If the system is balanced, both the rudder, sails and tiller, then I can't see that a tiller is really any disadvantage. My tiller pulls out of the rudder stock and can be set on the side decks to have a completely clear cockpit. You can also have a binnacle with a tiller. In many points of sail I can let go of the tiller and the boat will happily sail on for a few minutes before slowly rounding up.

I would agree with most of that, though a binnacle with a tiller seems to be very unusual. My main problem with a tiller steering system is that it does not fit well with a walk-through transom.

Fitting a below-deck auto-pilot on a tiller steering system seems a bit fraught - if the tiller is attached while the AP is active, it is going to be swinging all over the place. While most tillers are removable, they are not typically made to be removed while under way - in an emergency situation, I would not be particularly enthusiastic about the idea of having to knock the AP off and somehow reattach the tiller in a couple of seconds before we crash-gybe or get run down by a careless mobo.

 

[snowleopard]

there's wheels, and there's wheels if you see what I mean.

Exactly. I did some sailing on a 40 foot Admiral's Cup racer from the 60s. She was a powerful boat with a big main and fractional rig. With 3/4 turn lock to lock, helming on a broad reach in a blow had me knackered in short order and I'm no sylph. At the other end of the spectrum my cat has 4 turns lock to lock and can be steered with 2 fingers in any weather. Then there's the Lord Nelson with a traditional 5ft diameter traditional wooden wheel but it only drives the sensor for the steering motor and is a one-finger job.

One of the best features of a wheel in my opinion is the ability to let go. It's like comparing the controls of a fixed-wing aircraft to a helicopter. I specified hydraulic steering for my present boat, mainly because the geometry of the sterns made any other type too difficult to arrange. Believing all the old adages about hydraulic steering giving you no 'feel', I was pleasantly surprised to find that is not true. As soon as you start to turn the wheel the non-return valves in the steering pump open and you have a direct connection to the rudder(s) and all the feel you need. Steering in a quartering sea is no problem at all; you feel the kick-back as the wave passes under you just as much as you would with a tiller but without the wrist-breaking heave every few seconds.

 

[jordanbasset]

My wife has decided she want's wheel steering again on our next boat,it is to be around 30 foot long, must have in-mast furling and be a Bavaria. I have the choice of colour

 

[chrisedwards]

Never thought I would say this but if you like maneuvering at close quarters under sail - not using the engine - then a wheel is better. More accessible and as Snow Leopard says - can be tweaked minutely and then left while you handle the sails.

 

[PaulMcC]

It's really a pity you can't have both. I have a tiller steering (a 6 foot swan neck job which looks great) and most of the time I love it. Lots of scope to move around and steer from different positions. Also easier to reach winches and mooring lines although appreciate that's setup specific. There are times though that I would like to be able to add friction to the steering (going astern at speed springs to mind with my semi-balanced rudder).
A bungie strap across the tiller doesn't do quite the same job.

The only big disadvantage for me is that turning on and off the autopilot is a lot more involved than pressing a button, and if I need to use lots of the tiller range of movement then I need a fair bit of free space in the cockpit (including the space where the genoa winchman would like to be).

However on balance I'd keep the tiller.

 

[michael_w]

I don't care; I'll happily steer with either. With a wheel its easier to nip down to leeward and have a squint round the genoa. For the naysayers, try a Whitlock/Lewmar Cobra set up. Rack and pinion and a direct link to the rudder stock. Excellent feel and almost nothing to go wrong.