Can anyone cure me of my prejudice against wheel steering?

[jerrytug]

I don't care; I'll happily steer with either. With a wheel its easier to nip down to leeward and have a squint round the genoa. For the naysayers, try a Whitlock/Lewmar Cobra set up. Rack and pinion and a direct link to the rudder stock. Excellent feel and almost nothing to go wrong.

Rack and pinion, excellent feel? Now I'm converted! If only they were standard fit on the type of MAB long-keeler I'm looking for.
Thinking about it all, it's a little surprising that yacht makers don't advertise good feedback and feel from the wheel in their publicity..

 

[Grumpybear]

I don't care; I'll happily steer with either. With a wheel its easier to nip down to leeward and have a squint round the genoa. For the naysayers, try a Whitlock/Lewmar Cobra set up. Rack and pinion and a direct link to the rudder stock. Excellent feel and almost nothing to go wrong.

+1. I certainly wouldn't be put off a boat I otherwise wanted solely because of her steering mechanism.

 

[aluijten]

Last winter I've converted the 37ft boat from tiller to wheel. For me this was a huge improvement. I used to be a tiller-fan but like with most things on a boat it's not a exact science. As our boat has the rudder-blade behind a full scheg we had trouble keeping course in gusts. It took quite some muscle to keep the boat on track during a gust. At constant wind the boat sails nicely balanced.
We found the steering after conversion to be less tiring and more precise when sailing windward (we are no gentlemen...)

The installed system is a rack and pigeon system from Jefa. The feedback of the rudder is obviously different to a tiller but still enough to know what is happening. We find close windward courses easier to maintain compared to the tiller.

As said before the tradeoff is a big lump in your cockpit. We found that acceptable. Every gain comes with a loss.

 

[JohnGC]

An unusual option is the EVS (Etap Vertical Steering). The feel is more like a tiller than a wheel, but it's operated by standing upright behind like a wheel. EVS to port = heading to port.

The EVS was fitted to ETAPs around 32' as an option to a standard tiller. I've sailed a 32 with a tiller and I own a 32 with an EVS. The mechanism is very simple, just a large bevel gear. The head of the rudder shaft has a fitting for a tiller and is used for the emergency steering.

There is more headroom in the aft cabin of an Etap 32 with EVS fitted than there is in a 35 with a wheel.

There is more free space in the cockpit while sailing than with a wheel or tiller.

The main sheet and traveller can be trimmed while steering but not the headsail. A standard tiller pilot (we call ours Thelma) has handled F6/7 on a longish passage without complaint.

It's also possible to sit in the pushpit seat and steer with the extension.

The main down side is that if you let go, the EVS moves to one side quite quickly, although it can be lashed like a tiller.

The OP won't find a long keel Etap but the EVS is an interesting steering option for boats of this length.

Everyone who has used it on our boat (from the experienced to raw recruits) has liked it, so far.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/oubsik2kzy0bj1e/EVS1.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/93rwy9e1mbpogce/EVS2.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/fav01nz08b6svop/EVS3.jpg?dl=0

 

[jerrytug]

An unusual option is the EVS (Etap Vertical Steering). The feel is more like a tiller than a wheel, but it's operated by standing upright behind like a wheel. EVS to port = heading to port.

The EVS was fitted to ETAPs around 32' as an option to a standard tiller. I've sailed a 32 with a tiller and I own a 32 with an EVS. The mechanism is very simple, just a large bevel gear. The head of the rudder shaft has a fitting for a tiller and is used for the emergency steering.

There is more headroom in the aft cabin of an Etap 32 with EVS fitted than there is in a 35 with a wheel.

There is more free space in the cockpit while sailing than with a wheel or tiller.

The main sheet and traveller can be trimmed while steering but not the headsail. A standard tiller pilot (we call ours Thelma) has handled F6/7 on a longish passage without complaint.

It's also possible to sit in the pushpit seat and steer with the extension.

The main down side is that if you let go, the EVS moves to one side quite quickly, although it can be lashed like a tiller.

The OP won't find a long keel Etap but the EVS is an interesting steering option for boats of this length.

Everyone who has used it on our boat (from the experienced to raw recruits) has liked it, so far.

Used to be known as a "whipstaff" I believe and very popular in the 1500's

 

[prv]

An unusual option is the EVS (Etap Vertical Steering).

What a pretentious and overblown name for a whipstaff

Our yard's motor launch is steered this way. I also considered using one for occasional internal steering in a sketch design I did - this would have had a quadrant and cables under the sole, and a small access trap through which the lever itself would be slotted into the quadrant when needed.

Pete

 

[JohnGC]

What a pretentious and overblown name for a whipstaff

Our yard's motor launch is steered this way. I also considered using one for occasional internal steering in a sketch design I did - this would have had a quadrant and cables under the sole, and a small access trap through which the lever itself would be slotted into the quadrant when needed.

Pete

Well it depends on what the definition of whipstaff steering is. All of the examples I've found so far show a lever and yoke attached to a tiller set below the deck. That isn't how the EVS is constructed. I've read that the whipstaff gets its name from its tendency to whip about in heavy weather, the EVS doesn't. Although you do need to take care when reversing under engine.

Pretentious name? I've come across a lot worse and world has no shortage of TLAs!

 

[theoldsalt]

I have never seen the EVS but we had something very similar in a ferry boat I worked on in my youth back in the early 60s. The vertical "tiller" was connected to the rudder by cables. It was an alternative to a wheel enabling much quicker response to boat handling demands than could be achieve by a wheel and with the added advantage that it could be fitted anywhere convenient in the boat.

 

[prv]

Well it depends on what the definition of whipstaff steering is.

I take it to mean any vertical lever moving from side to side to steer. How it's connected to the rudder is immaterial. Modern ones are usually cables, as it's a pretty simple system to set up in a small workboat.

Pete

 

[john_morris_uk]

I have been known to sit in front of the wheel so I can steer & trim at the same time, but with a biggish genny & a heavy boat trimming is often a two handed job anyway. It is also surprisingly easy to turn a wheel the wrong way when sat in front of it, it feels like it should behave like a tiller, but it doesn't, it goes the other way, which is blatantly obvious when stood behind it, but less so when sat in front reaching out as if to a tiller.

It would be possible (just?) for me to steer and trim at the same time on our wheel steered centre cockpit Westerly, but in practice it would be physically impossible. To trim the genoa involves standing over the winch. This is despite the primary winches being HUGE two speed Barient winches. Conversely the mainsheet and its associated winch is within easy reach of the helm. With respect, I suggest some of the OP's bias will evaporate if he moves up to a bigger boat and finds his sailing habits have to change.

As I explained above, I'm a fan of wheel steering, but I agree that it is only suitable for larger boats. It can be ok on a 33, but I don't think it works on anything smaller.

Despite being a fan of wheel steering on bigger boats, I love tillers on smaller boats. I also struggle to understand why some small boats have wheels! They get in the way in a smaller cockpit...

Not only your opinion, it sounds like an ideal set-up to me as well!

Yet another disadvantage of wheel steering is that you can't tell where the rudder is pointing by glancing at the wheel.

All ships, from tug size upwards, have large rudder position indicators right in front of any steering position, and believe me these vital, and heavily engineered, devices are always tested, by eg MCA or Lloyds surveyors, and if they are broken it will result in a large 'stop note'. *
I wonder why?

Yet, on wheel steered yachts, you will be lucky to get a fancy whipping round the rim, which is never at the top when the rudder is central anyway!

(*personal experience)

I ended up with a spare 'hole for an instrument' when we were refitting Serendipity after we bought her. The autopilot has rudder feedback data on the seatalk databus so I fitted a rudder position indicator. It just plugged in and worked. I also put a Turks head on the wheel which if you will forgive the implied smugness is still at top when the rudder is centred. Rudder position indicators don't have to be the preserve of commercial vessels.

 

[Grumpybear]

A couple of turns of black tape have marked the rudder amidships position for me for the last eleven years. A turk's head would be tiddlier but not essential. Simples.

 

[prv]

I have the rudder indicator at the bottom of the autopilot screen, and a little leather cuff sewn onto the wheel. The centre isn't going to drift on its own, so as long as I take a little care to line things up after working on the cables (which is rare anyway) then the cuff will remain in the right place.

Pete

 

[ffiill]

A couple of turns of black tape have marked the rudder amidships position for me for the last eleven years. A turk's head would be tiddlier but not essential. Simples.

Same here and the pleasure of one finger steering with my hydraulic system with non return valves is great.
If I am sailing on Genoa and missen on my ketch I can set the wheel and go below to make a cup of tea or some food.
I rarely use my old trusty analogue Sharps autopilot circa 1978.
I well remember a couple of summers ago sailing up the Sound of Raasay towards Portree scrubbing the decks as the boat happily sailed itself along.

 

[aluijten]

I have the rudder indicator at the bottom of the autopilot screen, and a little leather cuff sewn onto the wheel. The centre isn't going to drift on its own, so as long as I take a little care to line things up after working on the cables (which is rare anyway) then the cuff will remain in the right place.

Pete

Unless the wheel is equipped with a disengagement system. This is very useful with a below deck installation of the autopilot as it removes the inertia of the steering wheel. That reduces the wear and tear on the system.

 

[prv]

Unless the wheel is equipped with a disengagement system.

Which it isn't

Pete

 

[john_morris_uk]

Which it isn't

Pete

Ours doesn't disengage either, but it doesn't seem to make any difference to its operation.

I meant to say that our Autopilot control head had a helm indicator at the bottom of the screen as well. It's just easier to look at the bridgedeck mounted one which I added and that has a needle on a gauge.

 

[aluijten]

Ours doesn't disengage either, but it doesn't seem to make any difference to its operation.

I meant to say that our Autopilot control head had a helm indicator at the bottom of the screen as well. It's just easier to look at the bridgedeck mounted one which I added and that has a needle on a gauge.

I did the very same thing but I was referring to the marker on the wheel. I did notice quite a lag on the rudder instrument by the way. As it still runs the original Seatalk interface, I'm not sure if that can be improved.

 

[john_morris_uk]

I did the very same thing but I was referring to the marker on the wheel. I did notice quite a lag on the rudder instrument by the way. As it still runs the original Seatalk interface, I'm not sure if that can be improved.

Haven't noticed a lag particularly. Ours is almost instantaneous. Perhaps a lag of a merest fraction of a second? We have ST60 instruments and a separate course computer with rate of turn gyro and fluxgate compass. I don't know what that means in terms of which version of Seatalk.

 

[aluijten]

ST60 is "classic" seatalk as well. It may have to do with the number of instruments on the bus. I have quite a few of them, so a lot of data goes across, I imagine. The lag is noticeable when you turn the wheel quickly, it causes a jerky movement on the needle of the instrument.

 

[westhinder]

I don't care; I'll happily steer with either. With a wheel its easier to nip down to leeward and have a squint round the genoa. For the naysayers, try a Whitlock/Lewmar Cobra set up. Rack and pinion and a direct link to the rudder stock. Excellent feel and almost nothing to go wrong.

+ another
Have gone from tiller to Whitlock Cobra and am absolutely delighted with the feel it gives me. A few days ago, I had to helm for hours in a force 6-7 with 2-3 metre quartering seas and it was a joy to do: always in control and not exhausting at all. The tiller on my previous boat would have been equally good in these circumstances. I think more depends on the design of hull, keel and rudder than on the actual steering mechanism. Get the combination and balance right, and helming is a joy, not labour.