Can a sea going dutch barge sail on uk canal network?

[legepe]

Hi everyone
I am contemplating buying a sea going dutch barge (72' X 13') with a fixed wheelhouse
Would it be possible to navigate most of the UK canals with this, or should I be looking for something different
Any advice very much appreciated
Thanks
legepe

 

[Leighb]

I am not an expert, but I have a feeling it won't fit in any of the locks, it is too wide for the narrow canals and too long for the wide canals. Happy to be corrected.

 

[Sticky Fingers]

Hi everyone
I am contemplating buying a sea going dutch barge (72' X 13') with a fixed wheelhouse
Would it be possible to navigate most of the UK canals with this, or should I be looking for something different
Any advice very much appreciated
Thanks
legepe

No, not a chance. It won‘t fit almost anywhere.

 

[st599]

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/media/original/32433-waterway-dimensions.pdf

 

[The Q]

Too big for most of the Norfolk Broads, even as a visitor you'd be limited to very few rivers , mostly just from great Yarmouth to Norwich. For a locally registered boat I believe it's 60ft with grandfather's rights, 45 ft max for new permanent registrations.

 

[Tradewinds]

I can only think of the Manchester Ship Canal!

 

[johnalison]

Go for it, and keep us posted.

 

[JerryRhum]

What is the air draft (heighest point above the water line)?

I doubt you'd fit under many of the bridges

 

[RivalRedwing]

The motor boat or Thames forums might be a better place to ask...

but I suspect the answer is no

 

[PeterWright]

The maximum beam for many of the locks in the UK canal network is 7 ft. Many of the larger locks will only handle a beam up to 10 ft.

The common reason given for this is that the UK was first to develop canals so ours relate to an older concept.

When you learn that the Duke of Bridgewater, Britain's greatest canal developer, visited the Canal du Midi, linking the Atlantic to the Mediterranean across France without the need to sail round Spain and through the Gibraltar Straits for much larger vessels to learn how to build canals and their all important water supply systems, the commonly given reason for the miniscule capacity of our canals doesn't stand up - I suspect it was due to the small ambition of British canal developers.

The vessel you are considering sounds quite attractive but, to enjoy her, you would need to bas yourself in Holland, Germany, Belgium, France, Switzerland, Austria and Hungary all countries that the vessel could access without going to sea through their integrated canal systems.

Peter.

 

[penfold]

We built canals to shift coal and other bulk products; as soon as rail could do it cheaper the canals went into decline. Building canals wider would have meant fewer canals being built as the capital needed would have been greater. Perhaps building most of the mileage prior to any power other than dobbin being available meant narrowboats were thought ideal; drawing a wide beam with a horse might not be viable.

 

[PeterWright]

We built canals to shift coal and other bulk products; as soon as rail could do it cheaper the canals went into decline. Building canals wider would have meant fewer canals being built as the capital needed would have been greater. Perhaps building most of the mileage prior to any power other than dobbin being available meant narrowboats were thought ideal; drawing a wide beam with a horse might not be viable.

Funny that the French managed it Coast to coast over higher mountains than any of the British canals and earlier than most of the British canals. Which of your reasons for narrow boats being the right solution didn't apply in France?

 

[AntarcticPilot]

There are several large Dutch style barges on the River Ouse at Ely, so perhaps the river network is more accessible than the canals.

 

[penfold]

Funny that the French managed it Coast to coast over higher mountains than any of the British canals and earlier than most of the British canals. Which of your reasons for narrow boats being the right solution didn't apply in France?

A quick read suggests my horse-based speculation is erroneous; the french canal system was widened by govt decree(Freycinet) well after the advent of the railways and canals with significant traffic have been widened many times. Neither of these things happened in the UK, canals remained in private ownership and many passed into railway ownership for either filling in for routes or to eliminate competition; the main exceptions being the Aire & Calder being widened for coal traffic and the digging of the Manchester ship canal.

 

[Kukri]

In Britain, one of the first objectives of each local railway company was to buy any canal that ran near its route and close it.

 

[PeterWright]

I accept that France continued to invest in their canals, including the Canal du Midi, well after the advent of railways. But that does nothing to change the fact that it was built before most of the UK canal system and its original design catered for far larger beam vessels than our narrow boat canals. It was probably this simple fact enabled it, and many other canals in the countries listed in my earlier post, to remain competitive with railways and so warrant ongoing investment after the advent of railways.

It seems that the Duke of Bridgewater, having had the foresight to go and learn from foreign leaders in the field, failed to learn the key lesson - do it on a worthwhile scale.

Peter.

 

[penfold]

He was spending his own money and it moved his coal quite effectively; he died a very rich man having not splurged his illgotten lucre building the Manchester ship canal 100 years early. Had there been a british Freycinet in Gladstone's or Salisbury's cabinet his successors would have been obliged to widen their ditches. Despite having tapped up the state for 80% of the capital Riquet died before the Canal du Midi was completed, his successors didn't see a return for a century or so; this is not a business model anyone is going to follow.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

He was spending his own money and it moved his coal quite effectively; he died a very rich man having not splurged his illgotten lucre building the Manchester ship canal 100 years early. Had there been a british Freycinet in Gladstone's or Salisbury's cabinet his successors would have been obliged to widen their ditches. Despite having tapped up the state for 80% of the capital Riquet died before the Canal du Midi was completed, his successors didn't see a return for a century or so; this is not a business model anyone is going to follow.

There's also the little issue that the French Revolution effectively nationalised the Canal du Midi, writing off a lot of the construction cost. It was backed by the government anyway (rather reluctantly, I think). Even so, it didn't break even for getting on for a hundred years after its construction. It is also very limited in its depth - I gather 1.5 m at most, so no seagoing vessels. It also made a voyage round Spain unnecessary. It's not really comparable with British canals, which were very much equivalent to railways in that they were designed to carry specific goods over specific routes; except for the Caledonian Canal ( which does have the capacity for sailing warships up to frigate size), none had strategic value. The narrow boat was a very efficient solution for that, so why spend more making canals for bigger craft? If your motive power is Dobbin on the towpath, there's a natural limit to how much can be towed. Water supply is another issue; it's not straightforward to ensure a sufficient supply of water in the top pound of a canal.

 

[LittleSister]

There's also the little issue that the French Revolution effectively nationalised the Canal du Midi, writing off a lot of the construction cost. It was backed by the government anyway (rather reluctantly, I think).

We must, then, wait for the British Revolution for any improvement to our canal system.

Water supply is another issue; it's not straightforward to ensure a sufficient supply of water in the top pound of a canal.

If only we had more rain in Britain!

 

[oldgit]

failed to learn the key lesson - do it on a worthwhile scale.

Example No2. Railway track guage ?
Quite a few Dutch Barges above Allington Lock but no further.