Buying my first sail boat!

[Jamiekent]

Evening one and all

I am very new to sailing, in fact I am on my competent crew course tomorrow morning ( Monday 13th July 2020 ) with Elite sailing in Chatham Marina, I will be following this up with day skipper courses and any additional you could advise.

I would like some advice and feedback from you experts in here please on what would be a good boat to buy based on needs, usage and budget.

myself and my wife intend to retire in 10 years, sell up and given hopefully the experience we have by that time, go off sailing and exploring for a couple of years so due to the long term plan we want to get something half decent now that will stand us in good stead for 9 - 10 years time still when we go off on our adventures, but also something we can use now as a weekend cruiser or for holidays so we could spend a week or two aboard and be quite comfortable.

Our budget is £80-£100k

We have been doing some research for quite a few months and our current preferred boat would be a Jeanneau sun odyssey 349, a 2014 - 2017 model.
Thoughts on this boat, is it a good boat in peoples eyes and be good enough to go world cruising if needed, even in 10 years time, also good enough now and comfortable enough to be a good weekend / holiday cruiser?

Other boats we like are as follows

Beneteau Oceanis 46

Bavaria 37 cruiser

Bavaria 33 cruiser

Dufour 455 grand large

Thank you so much in advance for any help or advice given it really is much appreciated

 

[KompetentKrew]

Buy a Centaur now, or anything under 30', sail the arse off it for the next 8 years. Sell it then and buy something else.

I bought a 40'er as my first boat, and the only grounds on which it was justified was that I was leaving now and didn't have 8 years in which to gain experience. 40' is too large in marinas, expensive to berth and higher maintenance costs.

 

[Skylark]

Hi and welcome,

I think that you are setting yourselves a very creditable ambition and I wish you luck. However, asking on here for a boat recommendation is guaranteed to solicit polarised responses.

Many people buy a smaller starter boat and progress to something bigger as their knowledge and experience builds. Some, as you are suggesting, buy their one and only straight out of the blocks. It’s all rather personal.

Annual costs of boat ownership tend to increase with size, but it’s wrong to generalise as there will always be exceptions. Creature comforts aboard and at sea also tend to improve with size. It’s often said that bigger boats can be a nightmare for close quarter manoeuvring in a marina. A contrarian view is that a modern fin keel boat has very predictable handling.

Getting some training sounds like a very good first step. Doubtless you’ll learn a lot and start to shape your view based upon hands-on experience. Ask lots of questions ?

For most of us, where we find ourselves 10 years after starting bears no resemblance to where we predicted we would be 10 years ago. ? It’s all part of the enjoyment.

I hope that you enjoy your Comp Crew course.

 

[Jamiekent]

Buy a Centaur now, or anything under 30', sail the arse off it for the next 8 years. Sell it then and buy something else.

I bought a 40'er as my first boat, and the only grounds on which it was justified was that I was leaving now and didn't have 8 years in which to gain experience. 40' is too large in marinas, expensive to berth and higher maintenance costs.

Thank you for your reply. Your choice of boat for now seems to be based on berthing costs and maintenance costs over the next few years. I can afford both and it won’t be a problem. With that in mind, would you go for a 40 footer now still and not leave it another 8 years?
What are your thoughts on the sun odyssey 379 as a boat, would it be a decent world cruiser or weekend cruiser?

 

[Jamiekent]

Hi and welcome,

I think that you are setting yourselves a very creditable ambition and I wish you luck. However, asking on here for a boat recommendation is guaranteed to solicit polarised responses.

Many people buy a smaller starter boat and progress to something bigger as their knowledge and experience builds. Some, as you are suggesting, buy their one and only straight out of the blocks. It’s all rather personal.

Annual costs of boat ownership tend to increase with size, but it’s wrong to generalise as there will always be exceptions. Creature comforts aboard and at sea also tend to improve with size. It’s often said that bigger boats can be a nightmare for close quarter manoeuvring in a marina. A contrarian view is that a modern fin keel boat has very predictable handling.

Getting some training sounds like a very good first step. Doubtless you’ll learn a lot and start to shape your view based upon hands-on experience. Ask lots of questions ?

For most of us, where we find ourselves 10 years after starting bears no resemblance to where we predicted we would be 10 years ago. ? It’s all part of the enjoyment.

I hope that you enjoy your Comp Crew course.

Thank you so much for your reply.
I will ask the instructor today what Chatham Marina is like for manoeuvring.
is a sun odyssey 379 a decent enough boat to go weekend sailing in down the south coast or as a world cruiser in a few years too do you think?

 

[Kelpie]

Why are you waiting ten years?

 

[Rhylsailer99]

10yrs ouch you need to be more impulsive buy a boat do the courses and sail now.

 

[Skylark]

Thank you so much for your reply.
I will ask the instructor today what Chatham Marina is like for manoeuvring.
is a sun odyssey 379 a decent enough boat to go weekend sailing in down the south coast or as a world cruiser in a few years too do you think?

Only you can answer that, I'm afraid. Ask ten people and get ten conflicting views

A Sun Odyssey 379 is a fine boat and undoubtedly many are used for UK weekend sailing and annual family holidays. A fair number of people live aboard boats smaller, older and mankier than one of these. It's a personal, informed choice. As you gain experience you'll be perfectly capable of making this decision without biased sway of other opinions.

With the sole exception of an Oceanis 41, which by coincidence I have one, there's no such thing as the perfect boat

With regard to manoeuvring, it's a case of understanding varying conditions of wind and tide, how the boat behaves and using all of these factors to your advantage. Plus, always ensure you have plenty of fenders out

 

[Beneteau381]

Thank you for your reply. Your choice of boat for now seems to be based on berthing costs and maintenance costs over the next few years. I can afford both and it won’t be a problem. With that in mind, would you go for a 40 footer now still and not leave it another 8 years?
What are your thoughts on the sun odyssey 379 as a boat, would it be a decent world cruiser or weekend cruiser?

My experience is the bigger the better. Up to a point. 40 ft is the optimum size for the Med areas given the marina price structures. I also found a bigger boat is easier to handle, they react slower and do predictable things.

 

[John the kiwi]

It has been comprehensively established on a recent thread that an englishman calls it a "sailing boat", or just "a/the boat" but never a sailboat which is a crass americanism.
You are so new to sailing, and reading between the lines your partner is too, that it is impossible to recommend a boat. After your first experience of a storm at sea one or both of you may decide to take up camper vanning instead.
Worst outcome is that you get hooked on sailing and you wife gets scared off by an experience that is traumatic for her.
You then end up sailing solo. Might be one or two on here like that? Don't force the pace.


Whatever you choose as your first boat will almost certainly inform you as to what you want from your next boat. Given that every boat ever built is a set of compromises, there is no perfect boat and only you can choose whats right for you. You can only do that with the benefit of experience.

So best advice is to buy a boat that is easily resold. i.e, popular model in good nick and not too old.
After a couple of seasons, you will either sell it and take up golf, or sell it and with the benefit of experience choose a new boat that suits you.

Meantime try and sail on as many boats as you can.

Good luck.

 

[MAURICE]

Catch 22 if you buy a larger boat 40 footer it can be a bit more to handle and you will need a helpful crew member or 2 until you get the handle of it. A bigger boat isbetter for lots of reasons and you will tend to go further distances and explore more. Smaller boat say 30 you will be able to handle yourself easier just like a bigger dinghy but will generally be slower and not as stiff in the breezes. Whatever you decide to do only practical experience will make you more confident. You should i think start with the 30 footer and then progress up. its the better way to get the experience

 

[Babylon]

Do the CC course then the DS theory and practical (plus bolt-on courses like sea-survival, 1st Aid, diesel engine, VHF), but don't even think about buying a yacht for the first year or so, or if you do, then buy an easily sellable used but not trashed 30-34 footer as a more easily handleable starter-boat (than something approaching 40 ft!) and gain a TON of experience learning in the real world how to sail in all conditions from light winds to breaking seas, manoeuvre in confined spaces, anchor confidently, live aboard a tight space, how boat systems work and break and how to fix them, etc, etc.

Just my view.

 

[Catalina36]

I can't advise you on a specific boat but what I can say is that I started with a 17 footer because I couldn't afford anything bigger though I always hankered after something that could cross the Channel.

A decade later I bought a 27 footer which to me was a big boat and sailed it for 10 years with family, down to the West Country and the Channel Islands and Brittany. Realisation dawned that even 27 feet wasn't enough for comfortable cruising. It had 6 berths but nowhere to store the clobber of six people. It could only carry 10 or 20 gallons of water.

Eventually with the family grown we were able to afford a 36 footer. At last, something large enough for just two people to live on for a couple of weeks without worrying about refilling water tanks every day, having to pick something up and move it before you can sit down, not banging your head every five minutes etc. You get the picture. Time flies, you're clearly very keen and you can afford it. Don't waste precious years messing around with something which won't satisfy you. On the other hand, take the time to find the right one. Buying in haste then regretting and having to sell is expensive, harrowing and time-consuming. It's much easier to part with the money than get it back.

 

[Stemar]

Do the CC course then the DS theory and practical

I'd argue that you don't need the theory if you've got the practical, which covers things like navigation, colregs and tidal calculations anyway. Get the DS theory book and keep it on board, by all means and, if you want a piece of paper, get a few miles under your belt and do the Yachtmaster Offshore.

I'm in the get a smaller boat to play with first camp. Something you can learn on and bounce off pontoons without shedding too many tears over scratched gelcoat. You've got ten years - you'll know a HUGE amount more about boats and what you want to do with them by eight years time and still have a couple of years to find and fettle the perfect boat for you.

 

[KompetentKrew]

Thank you for your reply. Your choice of boat for now seems to be based on berthing costs and maintenance costs over the next few years. I can afford both and it won’t be a problem. With that in mind, would you go for a 40 footer now still and not leave it another 8 years?
What are your thoughts on the sun odyssey 379 as a boat, would it be a decent world cruiser or weekend cruiser?

Everything is more demanding on a bigger boat - bigger, more complicated, more to maintain.

No doubt everyone here has made mistakes when they first learned to sail, and then again when they got their own boats - I bet my list is longer and more expensive, not only because I'm a muppet, but also because I bit off more than I can chew. I have broken things and made mistakes so mortifyingly stupid that I would not dream of embarrassing myself by admitting them here. Make your mistakes on a boat that doesn't matter - when you run aground you can say, "well, it'll cost us some money, but we bought this boat to learn on".

My 40'er is terrifying in a marina. It's a modern fin reeled boat, of the kind that someone else here described as "predictable". but when there's wind going one way and tide going the other, and you're tired or lacking confidence - if there's a risk of dinging into other people's boats, I suggest choosing a smaller lighter vessel. If I was still sailing with the club then I'd probably be happier helming their 35' and 40' boats, because the club requires always at least a skipper and two crew. But I think on my own or with only one crew I would often be happier with a smaller boat at my level of experience. Don't let this be you!

As someone else has also said, you'll know more what you want from a boat when you have experience. In my opinion a 5-day course is probably not enough to become really competent crew - I reckon that I was becoming reasonably handy and seamanlike after 15 or 20 days onboard. As a member of the crew that is, not as a skipper.

Lots of things you now think that you'll want, you'll revise your opinion once you have experience. I lusted after Jeanneaus when I was still a dreamer, and now that I've sailed on one I think Beneteaus are better - although they're now part of the same company, neither are the kind of boat I would choose for this kind of adventure, but they're perfect for you first few years' sailing, building experience crossing the channel at weekends.

 

[Hermit]

As you say you have little sailing knowledge or experience is it possible that you are choosing boats based on the accommodation? I.e. it looks nice and comfy? Once you have done a bit more sailing you may find that you want/need different things in a boat that is provided by those you mention.

It may be worth chartering a few times (Med and UK) before settling on a boat choice - this will both build experience and allow a proper try-out of different boat types without the risk of buying one you don't eventually like to sail.

 

[Praxinoscope]

I'm definitely in the start off with a smaller boat, 25-29' is fine, get your experience bombing around in this while you look for your ultimate 40' choice.
The bangs and scrapes you get won't matter so much, and combined with some shore-based courses you will be well practiced to know exactly what you want when it comes to the 'big purchase'.

 

[KompetentKrew]

I'd argue that you don't need the theory if you've got the practical, which covers things like navigation, colregs and tidal calculations anyway. Get the DS theory book and keep it on board, by all means and, if you want a piece of paper, get a few miles under your belt and do the Yachtmaster Offshore.

The instructor that I did my courses with didn't allow you on his day- or coastal skipper courses unless you'd already passed the corresponding theory course. I took the courses with a club, so perhaps he is more flexible when he's teaching paying students, but he said there was enough practical to cover in 5 days as it was, without him having also to test or teach the theory. If you've already done the theory course then he doesn't need to worry about it.

I did my Competent Crew and Coastal Skipper with www.phoenixyachtclub.co.uk, which I'd highly recommend to OP if they were nearer. Assuming he's based on the east coast then he might search "Lyra Nautor Swan 431" - I believe they accept crew applications through their Facebook page.

For the theory Kipper Sailing / Skippers Online is much better than NavAtHome.

 

[cherod]

undoubtedly you choice of sail boat should be a catamaran , do not wait 8 / 10 years to realise that ,, plenty of decent catamarans around for your budget .

 

[Beneteau381]

Evening one and all

I am very new to sailing, in fact I am on my competent crew course tomorrow morning ( Monday 13th July 2020 ) with Elite sailing in Chatham Marina, I will be following this up with day skipper courses and any additional you could advise.

I would like some advice and feedback from you experts in here please on what would be a good boat to buy based on needs, usage and budget.

myself and my wife intend to retire in 10 years, sell up and given hopefully the experience we have by that time, go off sailing and exploring for a couple of years so due to the long term plan we want to get something half decent now that will stand us in good stead for 9 - 10 years time still when we go off on our adventures, but also something we can use now as a weekend cruiser or for holidays so we could spend a week or two aboard and be quite comfortable.

Our budget is £80-£100k

We have been doing some research for quite a few months and our current preferred boat would be a Jeanneau sun odyssey 349, a 2014 - 2017 model.
Thoughts on this boat, is it a good boat in peoples eyes and be good enough to go world cruising if needed, even in 10 years time, also good enough now and comfortable enough to be a good weekend / holiday cruiser?

Other boats we like are as follows

Beneteau Oceanis 46

Bavaria 37 cruiser

Bavaria 33 cruiser

Dufour 455 grand large

Thank you so much in advance for any help or advice given it really is much appreciated

I did my dayskipper practical in Gibralter with Jack Peate. a star! It is good to obtain your ICC which is all you will ever need. Oh and get a VHF radio ticket. Simple enough and then you are set for the world!