Buy the biggest boat you can or buy small and sail longer?

I dont know much about them but was shown a photo of an Ebtide 33 used as a liveaboard in Med - steel I believe which might open up an alternate line of enquiry .
I would have thought if your plans are mainly med based a Moody over 37 ft would be ideal (even if they have no stern walk through ) and many seem to come up for sale fairly cheaply in Lefkas etc. Alternatively for longer trips maybe an Island Packet ?which seem solid if hard to manoeurve but mayb e too much for budget.
 
Neeves said:
I think early on in the piece you said you were not very handy, maybe you meant you had not been forced to be handy - owning a boat is a swift learning curve. If you are to sail to the far blue yonder you have a lot to learn of everyday maintenance (engines, sail repair, electrics, plumbing), without the need to spend time fixing anything up before you leave the quayside, swing mooring or safe anchoring depths.
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A note on being "handy". I'm pretty much all thumbs when it comes to doing anything practical, but the YM course I did offered some additional introductory units on basic electronics, engine maintenance, sail repairs and working with fibreglass. They were taught well and demystified some of the black voodoo I'd always associated with doing anything that didn't involve typing on a keyboard.
They were only taster courses, but it made me realise those skills are learnable, even by the terminally inept, and that with some more effort/training I might be able to passably fix something at least well enough to keep it running until I could find a pro to do it properly.
If I ever get to the point of casting off, I'll throw a few sheckles at doing some sort of intro to boat maintenance course again.
You can't replicate the skills of a trained engineer or boatbuilder with years of experience, but a bit of learning and you should be able to do a bit of fixer up work without doing too much damage.
 
steve yates said:
You have to bear in mind, when folk talk about what suits liveaboard, they are probably thinking using a boat as a home, moored up in a marina. Which is a very different thing to living aboard a boat that is actively cruising and exploring for a long period of time. The requirements and wants will have very different priorities in each case
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Yes, I think that's right; often retired people or those in a comfortable situation, cash rich, with crew. Where the de-facto priority is minimum disruption to personal comfort and shore side living. Fine in it's way but not the case here.
A singlehanded adventure on a shoestring is another matter. Ross's priorities of heating, shower and hot water don't sit well with his long term plans, shorthanded on a small boat.
There have been suggestions for yachts over 35ft and ones "made this century" despite the OP wanting to do the whole deal for a max of 25k and saying he is unhappy at the thought of handling boats over c26ft.

Good luck to him, no doubt he will know more when he has had a chance to digest his training and experience.
 
Vancouver 27/28 are cult petite oceanic boats, plenty of stowage, massive tanks for the size and no space wasted on frivolous things like cabins. The trim on this one is tatty and the sails sound tired, but big inventory, 2006 engine. Usually advertised for 5-10k more than that price. They are very rufty tufty though, I have not seen one advertised with hot water, never mind a shower. Soloing a small cutter rig where you need to tack a lot sounds like a ballache, and they apparently need 15kts to liven up. Very much built for one job.

https://www.rightboat.com/gb/boats-for-sale/vancouver/274-3b6b712c-692d-4681-91bf-67f9d3b9b767/rb281391
 
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Apart from the Southern Ocean most world cruising yachts are bog standard ex-charter type boats because they are easiest to buy and don’t break in bad weather - and they have the advantage of being designed for warm weather sailing. So I’d think of a very cheap doer upper bought somewhere where those kinds of boats are very cheap cheap once they are 10 years old - Greece for example, or maybe the Canaries for a bigger older boat that is just lying around once it’s owners found out they couldn’t face any more blue water.
 
steve yates said:
If it's just you, I'd be looking at a 26 footer, unless there was cash coming in regularly in the future to keep running it and fixing it. Everything you do to it with it will just be so much cheaper. I have one of the westerly 31's suggested, a longbow ketch, and it's great. It was also a real bargain. But If i was going away cruising for long periods, I would be quite happy to go in something smaller, like a vega. I'd rather spend my money on beer or cruising longer than berthing fees and fixing things. Whatever you do, do not buy anything that leaves you skint, as you WILL need to spend a lot more money than you thought on it.
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I would not want to go across the Atlantic in a 26footer. I have a westerly pentland 31 ft (for sale as it happens as have another boat also) and its much steadier in bad weather than our 27 footer. We do reasonably extended cruising and will need to be much more weather alert in future with the smaller boat particularly for the off shore journeys. 3 or 4 weeks across the Atlantic gives a lot of opportunity for sudden and unpleasant weather changes. At sea there is no disadvantage at all in larger boat but singlehanded picking up moorings or berthing in a marina it makes you run round a bit more. Getting in six weeks worth of food and water on a smaller boat could be an issue though less of an issue one up.

In terms of sail management I would also recommend a ketch if expecting bad weather. No fancy system needed for hoisting main from cockpit, just leave it put away in unsettled weather and sail on mizzen (reefable from steering position) and genoa (furlable from steering position) You really dont want to be out of cockpit solo in rough weather, even clipped on
 
Paddy Fields said:
Always wondered if things like that swimming platform count as part of LOA when calculating marina fees?
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We keep our yacht on a 10m marina berth. To get that.....much cheaper than 12m, we had to take off the rudder from the Hydrovane and the anchor.

In some countries its normal to go to a reception dock first to organise a berth. if there is any doubt, one of the staff will nip down and measure the boat alongside.
 
LadyInBed said:
If it is truly your intension to go 'blue water', to do it on a tight budget some advice that I have often seen is to buy a boat that has already done it because it should be already equipped to do it.
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A boat that already has done a 'blue water' trip like an Atlantic crossing - generally speaking - definitely needs a refit before the next trip with most of the stuff worn down.
 
I believe the following things to be true:
* You won't know what you want from a boat until you've owned one
- research won't tell you
- other people can't tell you
- sailing thousands of miles on charters, deliveries and other people's boats as a guest won't tell you
* What you think you'll be doing in 3 years' time is probably not what you'll be doing in 3 years' time
* You will lose money on a boat. Anyone who tells you they didn't is conveniently ignoring what they spent on it and the hundreds of hours labour they put into it.

Losing 30% on purchase and sale of of something cheap is less of a loss than 30% of something expensive and bigger is more cost to maintain.

Given the above I'd only go big enough to fulfil your immediate needs of learning to sail. The doer-upper is a terrible plan and don't balk at paying apparently over the odds for a superbly maintained boat. Particularly with smaller boats, loving previous owners may have spent many times more than its worth in fettling the previous few years. Learn to sail. Learn boat maintenance. If you hate it you've gambled less than you would have on a bigger boat. If you love it you'll go into your second boat knowing what you want.
 
laika said:
I believe the following things to be true:
* You won't know what you want from a boat until you've owned one
- research won't tell you
- other people can't tell you
- sailing thousands of miles on charters, deliveries and other people's boats as a guest won't tell you
* What you think you'll be doing in 3 years' time is probably not what you'll be doing in 3 years' time
* You will lose money on a boat. Anyone who tells you they didn't is conveniently ignoring what they spent on it and the hundreds of hours labour they put into it.

Losing 30% on purchase and sale of of something cheap is less of a loss than 30% of something expensive and bigger is more cost to maintain.

Given the above I'd only go big enough to fulfil your immediate needs of learning to sail. The doer-upper is a terrible plan and don't balk at paying apparently over the odds for a superbly maintained boat. Particularly with smaller boats, loving previous owners may have spent many times more than its worth in fettling the previous few years. Learn to sail. Learn boat maintenance. If you hate it you've gambled less than you would have on a bigger boat. If you love it you'll go into your second boat knowing what you want.
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.......Took the words right out of my mouth.
Do your coarse then go and learn to sail as much as possible in a 20+ footer. Every day if you can in all sorts of conditions until its second nature.
You'll know what you need then and not what you want.....
 
Buy something that works with money you can afford to lose.
Boats are money pits.
Have a modest boat and spend money on going places.
The capital cost of the boat is often a bit of a detail when you spend a lot of days in a year actually cruising the coasts.
 
Luminescent said:
Which would mean you would advise a much smaller boat to begin with... probably a day sailer?
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Not a day sailer: Long trips and living on board are an integral part of learning what you really want from a boat. Just suggesting that it's better not to commit all your resources until you really know what you want and someone buying their first boat almost certainly doesn't know what they want. I had 10k miles and a YM ticket and did a ton of research before buying the boat for the circumnavigation I haven't done yet. In retrospect I would have bought a smaller twin keeler for coastal sailing and traded up based on a few years' acquired knowledge when I was ready to go.
 
The logic is perfectly sound and understandable. I haven't met many people advocating a 20-30ftr for coastal sailing around the UK though.
 
Luminescent said:
The logic is perfectly sound and understandable. I haven't met many people advocating a 20-30ftr for coastal sailing around the UK though.
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Largely because you won't find too many people advocating being too poor to afford a shiny 35+ft boat, regrettably.
 
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