Buy the biggest boat you can or buy small and sail longer?

steve yates said:
Whatever you do, do not buy anything that leaves you skint, as you WILL need to spend a lot more money than you thought on it.
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Yes exactly this; I can live in a small space - used to living in tents! I won't bore everyone with my life plans but hoping to go sailing, possibly even around the world, but on a limited budget (i.e. time rich cash poor). If I raised 30k, I'd ideally need some for the boat, some for upgrades, and the rest as a reserve and for the trip (edit; I'd work too each year, but wouldn't earn a great amount of money, and would be living on the cheap, i.e. 8-12k a year).
 
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ross84 said:
Yes exactly this; I can live in a small space - used to living in tents! I won't bore everyone with my life plans but hoping to go sailing, possibly even around the world, but on a limited budget (i.e. time rich cash poor). If I raised 30k, I'd ideally need some for the boat, some for upgrades, and the rest as a reserve and for the trip (edit; I'd work too each year, but wouldn't earn a great amount of money, and would be living on the cheap, i.e. 8-12k a year).
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Just curious..What is your sailing experience?
There is Shrimpy, a 17 odd foot ply boat sailing RTW way back. But the sort of reception he got at far away places was way different to what you might expect now, because it was exceptional and life was simple, back then. Now, you are likely to viewed as a well heeled bloke who can afford to be charged good money to stop off in their space.
FWIW, The 27ft boat ( a Trapper) I have been helping with, would be enough to go distance alone, or even with another.
Also, I read, in PBO?, an account of a young couple who sailed a 20ft Plywood French design from Brittany to Tahiti, via the Panama Canal. No engine and limited electrics. Made it OK.
 
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Lived/worked on yachts for a few weeks, been on them once or twice on as a tourist, other than that ... :)

I am just about to book myself in for intensive RYA CC + Day skipper though!
 
ross84 said:
Lived/worked on yachts for a few weeks, been on them once or twice on as a tourist, other than that ... :)

I am just about to book myself in for intensive RYA CC + Day skipper though!
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Right.. So buy a really cheap, as in give-away, 20ft grp boat and do a bit of sailing around your bit of coast. After some time of the nuts & bolts of doing it for yourself, re-think what you want.
 
Chalk & cheese quite frankly. Ive a smallish boat, and can do pretty much anything with her apart from have a shower. she will take me anywhere. Id love a 40ft liveaboard, but that's about all I could do with one. Id not be able to pop out for a day sail, id struggle in close quarters single handed, Every extra foot costs you more money in every possible way..

You really need to know realistically what you want to do. If you really want to cross the Atlantic, its more important to get a boat that can handle almost anything the weather throws at it, rather than if its got a shower. Sail Area/displacement ratio. compare boats on sailboatdata.

Steveeasy
 
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26' is big. At least, it is when all you have known is 22'. We cruised with two children in a 26 for 15 years quite happily, but actually anything much less than 30' is small except for a couple of weeks or so. What matters in terms of cruising ability is waterline length, which is why many of the Westerlys were successful in spite of their lack of glamour.
 
ross84 said:
Or are bigger boats better at sea?
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Generally, all other things being equal, a larger boat is more comfortable and safer at sea. (Some great articles in Yachting Monthly analysing the problems suffered by boats on the Golden Globe Race are worth a read for the scientific reasons.)

However a good small boat can do long voyages if the skipper is experienced and skilled. And a boat over 12m starts to get expensive for mooring and running costs.

It does seem to be that boats around 10m (32 feet) start to feel more substantial at sea than smaller boats.
 
DownWest, that sounds far too sensible :rolleyes:

I guess I should get my Day Skipper at least, and then maybe view more yachts (only seen a Sadler 29, and Tempest so far, I thought that both were totally 'livible' assuming you could get hot water, heating, and a shower in there).

Cheers :)
 
Hot water, Heating, and a shower. well now your talking. whats wrong with a bucket shower on deck, just not when your tied up in a posh marina. Lots to gain from keeping things simple.

Steveeasy
 
A few general considerations:
- bigger (longer) provides more hull speed and tends to be more comfortable at sea
- lighter (weight) boats tend to be cheaper than heavier boats, but have more maintenance cost because stuff breaks down more easy and they tend to be less comfortable in rough weather
- there are all kinds of ratio's like displacement/length, comfort, etc that tell you something about the boats handling at sea. And there all all kinds of opinions what is better for what purpose and what is not. Check out sailboatdata.com website
- bigger means more maintenance cost (sky rocketing curve for extra length)
- avoid old boats with teak decks, because they are a financial problem in the making if not yet already a problem
- project boats in general turn out to be more expensive when ready then when you would have bought a ready to sail boat in the first place
- anything that can break down will break down on an old boat. keep it as basic as possible.
- you can have a lengthy debate over plastic vs. steel vs. other hull material
- tiller is cheaper than steering wheel, but personally I would prefer a wheel. This is an important consideration for longer trips
- and last but not least: buying a boat is an expensive hobby, but frequently changing boats is even more expensive. If you don't know what to buy the best way forward is first borrowing/renting several types of boats for personal experience

There are plenty impopular boats on the market today that can make a great bargain.

I do concur with the opinion that the boat you are looking for should be at least around 10 meters / 32 feet.

Good luck with your RYA training. Excellent starting point!
 
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I had a 22 footer for 16 years, it was a tub (Swin Ranger) but it got me all around N Brittany and down to the Med a couple of times via the canals.
A bowl of warm water and a sponge in the cockpit is as good as a shower and a Porta Potti has it's own holding tank :). With that sort of boat you learn to live frugally, which holds you in good stead for living on anchor in a bigger boat.
 
PHN said:
A few general considerations:
- bigger (longer) provides more hull speed and tends to be more comfortable at sea
- lighter (weight) boats tend to be cheaper than heavier boats, but have more maintenance cost because stuff breaks down more easy and they tend to be less comfortable in rough weather
- there are all kinds of ratio's like displacement/length, comfort, etc that tell you something about the boats handling at sea. And there all all kinds of opinions what is better for what purpose and what is not. Check out sailboatdata.com website
- bigger means more maintenance cost (sky rocketing curve for extra length)
- avoid old boats with teak decks, because they are a financial problem in the making if not yet already a problem
- project boats in general turn out to be more expensive when ready then when you would have bought a ready to sail boat in the first place
- anything that can break down will break down on an old boat. keep it as basic as possible.
- you can have a lengthy debate over plastic vs. steel vs. other hull material
- tiller is cheaper than steering wheel, but personally I would prefer a wheel. This is an important consideration for longer trips
- and last but not least: buying a boat is an expensive hobby, but frequently changing boats is even more expensive. If you don't know what to buy the best way forward is first borrowing/renting several types of boats for personal experience

There are plenty impopular boats on the market today that can make a great bargain.

I do concur with the opinion that the boat you are looking for should be at least around 10 meters / 32 feet.

Good luck with your RYA training. Excellent starting point!
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I agree with all the above, bar one point. Going for a tiller a make it easier to connect a wind vane self steering gear than to a wheel. Minor point in the grand scheme of things though
 
steveeasy said:
Hot water, Heating, and a shower. well now your talking. whats wrong with a bucket shower on deck, just not when your tied up in a posh marina. Lots to gain from keeping things simple
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Actually, choose a boat wisely and the extra cost of getting one with heating, hot water and shower will be minimal. Most boats built this century will already have them. BUT adding them later can be expensive.

And things like a shower on board can mean much more pleasant staying on the anchor, saving a fortune in very expensive marina fees.
So for a live aboard these could be a strategic cost saving.
 
I think early on in the piece you said you were not very handy, maybe you meant you had not been forced to be handy - owning a boat is a swift learning curve. If you are to sail to the far blue yonder you have a lot to learn of everyday maintenance (engines, sail repair, electrics, plumbing), without the need to spend time fixing anything up before you leave the quayside, swing mooring or safe anchoring depths.

My thought it - if you cannot sail her away safely NOW you will spend all your time and money getting her ready and when you are ready you might find life has passed you by. I've seen it happen - and can see the boat from where I sit and type now - and basically it has not moved for 18 years (and has been up for sale for 12 months).

Of all the yachts mentioned - how many would have reliable rigging (and sails)?

Based on your description of finances I don't see you buying and selling boats and upgrading - so what you buy now is THE ONE. Your needs seem to be for a single person crossing oceans - if/when you come to sell my guess is that the biggest segment of the potential market is for couples, or couples with a small family - if you think in terms of ease of selling in the future - think in terms of more than one person on board.

Jonathan
 
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You have to bear in mind, when folk talk about what suits liveaboard, they are probably thinking using a boat as a home, moored up in a marina. Which is a very different thing to living aboard a boat that is actively cruising and exploring for a long period of time. The requirements and wants will have very different priorities in each case
 
johnalison said:
26' is big. At least, it is when all you have known is 22'. We cruised with two children in a 26 for 15 years quite happily, but actually anything much less than 30' is small except for a couple of weeks or so. What matters in terms of cruising ability is waterline length, which is why many of the Westerlys were successful in spite of their lack of glamour.
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Damn....I always thought I looked amazing on the water.
 
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