Buy cheap, buy twice

[Jacket]

I wonder who they sold the boat to after the test, and if they ever told him what had been done with it?

We'll probably find out that it was sold to that German who posted on here a few weeks back, whos keel had punched through the bottom of his boat when it was lifted out!

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[nicho]

No surely, being a fine, upright German company, they would never do that........would they?? (Hopefully, it was a prototype that is not allowed to be sold on!!)

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[nicho]

Funny isn't it? A positive story on the strength and integrity of a modern boat's hull, and it all goes very quiet - weird that!!

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[Jacket]

OK then, here's my thoughts on the matter.

Firstly, I'd better say that in general I don't like most modern production boats, but not because of build quality, more to do with design style. I know its all subjective, but I prefer narrower boats with less beamy sterns, and a layout tailored for seagoing. Having said that, there are a few production boats I really do like, just as there are old boats I like and old boats I hate.

The thing that gets me is people saying "modern boats are built on production lines, like cars, therefore quality control is much better." What rubbish. Yes, quality control on cars is far better now, but only because everythings done by robot. In the early days of production lines when more was done by hand, quality control was awful compared to what it had been before. because everything had to be done in a set time, if you ran out of time to tighten a few bolts, it didn't get done.

Production line methods for boats that are still largely built by hand is no better or worse than boats built the old way- build quality soley depends on workforce training and how good the quality checks are. What it does do is allow boats to be much cheaper.

Yes, modern hulls can be very strong, and Kevlars wonderful stuff that should be used on all boats for impact resistance. The problem I think is more the way the furnitures put in. If you do have structural problems (and most boats are going to get damaged sooner or later) it can be very hard to get at the hull for repairs on boats with internal liners, or furniture that's put in with the deck off and can't be removed once the decks bonded on.

The bit I really don't understand. Bavaria build good hulls, bolt on good (and expensive) deck fittings, and then build shoddy interiors, at least on the boat show examples I've looked at. And its silly things as well. The basic materials they use seem OK. But then they do things like attaching grab handles with small screws. Given the overall cost of a boat, would using bolts really add much to cost? And it would turn a cheap feeling interior into an excellent one.

But the bit I really don't get. When you do hear of Bavs having structural problems, the company never wants to know about it. Given the amount of attention these instances gain, surely it would be worth Bav's while to sort the problem, as the cost would be very minor for such a big company when compared to the poor image that these problems can gain them.

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[bedouin]

I don't normally like participating in the sport of BavBashing - but a provocative remark like that deserves a response.

It is either a very clever or very naive test by Bav. The bows of a boat are (or ought to be) the strongest part of the boat. I imagine very few boats sink following a head-on collision with a concrete breakwater. The particular problem reported with Bavaria has been to do with the attachment of the keel. In the real life test of a Bav being run aground on Brambles Bank it did not fare as well

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[Tassiebill]

Hi All
As a new member I’d appreciate thoughts on Jeanneau build quality from 89 - 90. I’m just about to purchase an 89 Sun Charm. It’s hard to find reviews of that model. I noticed one owner on here. I’d really appreciate some feedback please

 

[V1701]

Hi & welcome, you would have been better posting a fresh thread to ask your question, as it is you've resurrected this old (& somewhat controversial) one from 2003!

No matter, as it happens I had a 1989 Jeanneau Sun Dream 28, Tony Castro design, quite quick and nicely fitted out below. Condition is everything with boats of a certain age - engine, sails, standing rigging, bunk cushions, electronics, etc. If it's been looked after I would have no concerns around build quality...

 

[Graham_Wright]

I have my own views but can someone please explain "<hr width=100% size=1>?

 

[doug748]

Hi All
As a new member I’d appreciate thoughts on Jeanneau build quality from 89 - 90. I’m just about to purchase an 89 Sun Charm. It’s hard to find reviews of that model. I noticed one owner on here. I’d really appreciate some feedback please

Pile of crap.


Only joking. Thought I'd entered a time machine.

Welcome, I know nothing particularly but they look good value. As suggested fire up a new thread for best advice.

.

 

[Rappey]

I was impressed with the "expedition evans" boat as the whole interior just unscrewed gaining access to the matrix, just like ikea flat pack.. thats where i was unimpressed - the matrix that gives the boat its strength that was just glued in, until it hit the seafloor and it became unstuck...

 

[mikefleetwood]

I have my own views but can someone please explain "<hr width=100% size=1>?

Bearing in mind this is an old thread resurrected, I suspect it is a hang-on from a previous forum platform and not recognised by the current version. A 2003 thread replied to in 2021 must be some kind of a record!

 

[Rappey]

Ahh cr*p. Fallen for a resurrection again ?

 

[alan_d]

"Buy cheap buy twice" and "You get what you pay for" are aphorisms which are useful for alerting people to the dangers of buying solely on the basis of low price, but do not express some deeper truth. There is no inherently necessary relationship between quality and price, or even between quality and cost of production, although it might make buying decisions easier if there were. This is as true for boats as it is for wine, washing powder, cosmetics or defence systems. Few of us finding the identical item for sale at different prices from different suppliers would chose to pay the higher price in the belief that we would thereby obtain a superior product.

 

[penfold]

I was impressed with the "expedition evans" boat as the whole interior just unscrewed gaining access to the matrix, just like ikea flat pack.. thats where i was unimpressed - the matrix that gives the boat its strength that was just glued in, until it hit the seafloor and it became unstuck...

It will have been built to a price; generally the maker will advise against allision with the seabed. The opportunity cost of insisting on heavier construction is not owning a boat or owning a used one.

 

[Elessar]

thats the motto I was taught in my youth by my parents. I have tried to practice it to the full and as a result have never bought a Bav, Jen or Ben.

All the woes one hears from owners of such, allegedly, poorly constructed boats make me wonder how the company let alone the boats keep afloat.

The best policy seems to be buy the best you can or don't buy at all. Charter, and let the charter company deal with all the problems. You get to sail in all the best places and you can chose to take other holidays too, having saved all those berthing and repair bills.

Will the modern GRP boats last as well as the 1970s and earlier built boats, I doubt it and the older boats are often more stable, better fitted out, more reliable and much more capable of looking after their crews.

IMHO there are a few, a very few, well designed and built modern GRP boats and most seem to come from Sweden or Finland. Why can't we do the same in Britain - the answer seems to be that the cost base is too high, to the tune of 30% or more. We are just too greedy.



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what nonsense. New member troll.

 

[penfold]

what nonsense. New member troll.

Cheeky, he's been here as long as you!

 

[WoodyP]

But it is a great troll?

 

[MystyBlue2]

Not all of us have massive budgets to blast 10k + on a small sailing outfit nevermind what some folk on here have spent.

Dont get me wrong it would be nice but to MOST in the country we have to be grateful for what we have and can afford.

Tbh the prices of some basic sailing boats could pay for a house outright or a huge deposit and still have change left over for a second hand 911 and to me that is bloody ridiculous.

Boating isnt just for the millionaires, rich and famous folk.

Look at all the fishing villages across the whole of the uk, tiny open deck rowing boats with a 2hp mariner or inboard "put put" engines and it gets the job done.

Sometimes the pricetag is just something to brag and boast about. And to most normal folk we couldn't give a dam of how big, flashy or expensive something is.

Aslong as it works....well its doing its intended purpose.

I bought mine for 2k! Including engine and a trailer. And plotter radio fishfinder etc.

14ft seahog trio pleasure fishing boat and i love it. Fast, Nimble, cheap, fits inside a garage so no winter weather damage or MASSIVE mooring fees, no rot as its high and dry, away from thieves, no antifouling annually, can launch and retrieve single handedly I.E no need for 6 crew just to go out, cheap repairs and servicing, cheap insurance, cheap boat and engine repairs, can explore any span of water anywhere in the uk as i just tow up and launch. Basically now its all bought and paid for i just add £30 fuel and tow it to a destination of my choice etc etc.

And IMO i wouldn't have it any other way even if i won the euro millions.

I just couldn't be arsed with the hassle of the above dribble of taking to the water. Horses for courses i suppose but please dont judge if someone's boat doesn't meet your standard's or value.

Google - Seahog boats uk.

Bloody good reviews and reputation in the uk for all kinds of small GRP pleasure craft.

Just because there cheap and small...Doesn't mean they are incapable.

 

[Mr Cassandra]

I owned a Suncharm 39 . 1989 .Extremely strong boat kevlar reinforced its now in shared ownership in the Aegina area Greece, still going strong .
Quite a quick boat as it was a Sunfast 39 with a wing keel. Carried the same sail plan as it bigger sister the Sunmagic44.

 

[Bobc]

I wonder if he still has the same boat he had when he started this thread in 2003

I still have the one I bought in 2003, and it's a Bavaria.

I bought cheap and bought once.