Burton Waters & a costly learning curve

[volvopaul]

I agree with posts from either side on this and as its the marine world companies seem to think they have a right to hold on to money paid to them for little or no work, in this case as it reads NO WORK AT ALL, just as I said sour grapes.

As said BW have built a business up to what it is by Malcolm Cox over 30 plus years, so why adopt the attitude they have done with the OP who obviously has never owned a boat before and trusted BW 100% at the outset to then be totally ignored by email and phone by AC just because he had decided the BW boat was not for him, being ignorant has no excuse no matter what the circumstances are, it takes nothing to explain the situation and reasoning as to why he kept back £250, instead he chose to ignore the OP.

He had not signed a purchase contract of any sort as I can see from any post, so how could they come back to him for any monies if the boat was to be sold for less, now that would have made a good post on here im sure had that happened.

I have done work for many boat owners on this forum and yet to date have never asked for any kind of deposit, not even to cover travelling costs to site let alone for parts, and every time its a gamble that out of the goodness of people on here has paid off.

Posters that have placed negative comments on here, would im sure not be so happy had they lost money too, and the point im trying to make is down to the figure of £250 held back as no where in any print does it stipulate the deposit/admin charge, its all about being up front in this world and the way I see this is clearly not the case. Let us all learn from this post as said before in many many posts on here regarding brokers be on your guard with your money, and above all whos hands you place it in to.

 

[SpottyDog5]

I Think Paul is spot on with his comments.

I do have a certain sympathy with the OP, Ive been there myself (on both sides) haven't we all got a little carried away-ed in the excitement of a new purchase ?

We all get a little "smitten" at boat-shows, only to wake up to the the voice of reason.

I still believe BW should have "invested" in this customer, he would then be sure to think highly of them for his next purchase, instead he is now pi**ed off with them.

We have to respect BW have the absolute right to run their business how they seem fit, just wouldn't be my choice, very short sighted IMHO.

 

[petem]

I agree with posts from either side on this and as its the marine world companies seem to think they have a right to hold on to money paid to them for little or no work, in this case as it reads NO WORK AT ALL, just as I said sour grapes.

As said BW have built a business up to what it is by Malcolm Cox over 30 plus years, so why adopt the attitude they have done with the OP who obviously has never owned a boat before and trusted BW 100% at the outset to then be totally ignored by email and phone by AC just because he had decided the BW boat was not for him, being ignorant has no excuse no matter what the circumstances are, it takes nothing to explain the situation and reasoning as to why he kept back £250, instead he chose to ignore the OP.

He had not signed a purchase contract of any sort as I can see from any post, so how could they come back to him for any monies if the boat was to be sold for less, now that would have made a good post on here im sure had that happened.

I have done work for many boat owners on this forum and yet to date have never asked for any kind of deposit, not even to cover travelling costs to site let alone for parts, and every time its a gamble that out of the goodness of people on here has paid off.

Posters that have placed negative comments on here, would im sure not be so happy had they lost money too, and the point im trying to make is down to the figure of £250 held back as no where in any print does it stipulate the deposit/admin charge, its all about being up front in this world and the way I see this is clearly not the case. Let us all learn from this post as said before in many many posts on here regarding brokers be on your guard with your money, and above all whos hands you place it in to.

Paul, you need to read the OP's original post. He did sign a contract (stated in the fifth line) which we assume bound him to buy the boat. We also presume, unless the OP would like to correct us, that there no was get out purely for changing your mind. If we were to treat contracts and deposits as lightly as you and others seem to suggest then there's no point in having them. We also are not privvy to the effort that the salesman has gone to to sell the boat nor are we privvy to any conversations that the OP and BW had.

Pete

 

[volvopaul]

Paul, you need to read the OP's original post. He did sign a contract (stated in the fifth line) which we assume bound him to buy the boat. We also presume, unless the OP would like to correct us, that there no was get out purely for changing your mind. If we were to treat contracts and deposits as lightly as you and others seem to suggest then there's no point in having them. We also are not privvy to the effort that the salesman has gone to to sell the boat nor are we privvy to any conversations that the OP and BW had.

Pete

Pete , buying a boat in any contract states " the buyer to purchase the boat subject to survey, condition and a satisfactory sea trial" after research on this particular model he decided against it.

Whats wrong with that?

18 months ago I placed again a £1000 deposit on an Audi A4 Avant , to get home that night and find on Audi website the same car for less wth sat nav that I originally wanted, I rang the dealer and was offered my deposit back in full, which I accepted and checked online it had been paid back. 2 Days later I recieved a call from the same dealer who didnt want to loose my business as it was my 3rd Audi, to offer me the car I wanted with all the toys for the same price.

The point im also trying to make is the arrogance of BW in this case as they were dealing with, 1, a new customer to boating ( I tend to find sealine owners always go back for another one in years to come) not in this case now, (poor customer relations from the start) sure sealine would like that in this climate, so lets forget rules and contracts for a few minutes and concentrate on the way the OP was treated, after all this is what this post is about, the OP now realises his mistake, whats grieved him is how he has been treated.

 

[Thepipdoc]

Given that the OP knew that he would lose all or part of the deposit - he told us in the opening post, why does he have anything to complain about?
We only have his account of what actually happened and based on what we have been told, the majority of contributors to this particular post don't agree with him ( we are therefore BW apologists apparently!) how much more would the picture change if we had BW's account of what actually happened?
As it stands, I and the majority don't agree that he's been "had" and as I said in an earlier post this shouldn't be considered as a draw ( as suggested by the OP), but instead it's a 1-0 win to him (IMO).

 

[petem]

Pete, buying a boat in any contract states "the buyer to purchase the boat subject to survey, condition and a satisfactory sea trial" after research on this particular model he decided against it.

Whats wrong with that?

Precisely my point. It is "subject to survey, condition and a satisfactory sea trial" not subject to "not changing your mind and fancying something different"!

 

[thefatlady]

For balance ....

I have had dealings with Burton Waters and reneged on a deal for serious medical reasons which jumped up and hit me the day after placing a deposit. I fully expected to lose some, if not all, of my deposit, but Adam Cox was very helpful and returned my deposit in full. I accept that this was due to circumstances beyond my control, but he didn't need to do that. Should the need arise again, I should have no hesitation in using Burton Waters (if they would deal with me again).

Adam, if you are reading this, thank you again.

 

[Elessar]

Who know's, maybe she was fobbing you off?

funny I thought that too.

 

[theforeman]

...... but instead it's a 1-0 win to him (IMO).

while i agree with the bulk of your posts on this thread i`m not so sure about the quote above. to my mind thread is running about 5 - 0 win for bw .
on the basis that the op knew he could lose some or all of the deposit he hasn`t yet ventured an opinion on what sum he would consider bw might reasonably have retained as an admin charge.
i know he thinks he should have got it all back but it would be interesting to know the figure that would have resulted in him not posting this thread.

 

[OAF]

I reckon that BW have won outright and that not giving the OP a full refund has been an excellent move on their behalf, purely from an advertising point of view(obviously they didn't know that he would post on here) This thread has had over 2500 viewings and nearly 50 posts, some good some bad but as the saying goes "all advertising is good advertising, even bad advertising"

In business you cannot please all of the people all of the time and you will inevitably up set someone with a company policy, there are always two sides to every story and BW obviously saw fit in this instance to implement the charge, it does also send out a clear message to people, down mess businesses around or you might get your fingers burnt! IMO of course.

 

[wakeup]

I don't think that BW's approach was unreasonable given the background. I think the original poster is very fortunate to have been refunded £750.

I am guessing that there is loads more to this than meets the eye. We only have half the story and it look pretty shaky from that perspective. Indeed the OP approach that anyone that doesn't agree with him is an idiot. I am guessing that the OP didn't present his case in a reasonable manner to the salesman following his decision to renege.

A reasonable man would say that it is fair that BW should retain some of the deposit regardless of the actual admin processing costs associated with holding the funds for one night.

 

[Wiggo]

Given that BW are not likely to be a volume user of credit card services, it may have cost them 2.5% just to take the payment...

 

[lovezoo]

Do you not think they get the handling charge back on a refund?

 

[Wiggo]

Do you not think they get the handling charge back on a refund?

Why? Have you ever met a bank that's a charitable institution? I wouldn't be surprised if they charged another 2.5% on the £750 refund transaction, too.

 

[kid's inheritance]

If being charged £250 for a totally legitimate reason (from the details posted-and these will be less than partisan probably), I think the OP is going to have a torrid time boating !
Rob

 

[lovezoo]

Why? Have you ever met a bank that's a charitable institution? I wouldn't be surprised if they charged another 2.5% on the £750 refund transaction, too.

PayPal refund you the transaction charge if you refund a customer and they are not a charity (far from it in fact).

Anyway 2.5% is £25, still a long way short of £250.

I am beginning to think that boat-owners are so used to being ripped off by the marine industry they think this sort of thing is considered perfectly normal.

 

[Trundlebug]

At the risk of sounding a bit harsh, I think paying £250 is money well spent to learn that signing a contract is a meaningful act.

I can't believe some people think nothing of signing a contract, as though it means nothing, then whinge when they can't go back on it without repurcussion or cost.

Signing a bill of sale document should be a seminal moment, especially for this sort of money, (£105k FFS !!!) and should be treated as such. If you're not sure, wait until you are or understand you are taking a calculated risk; go into it with your eyes open. It's not like buying a toothbrush.

In this case the OP took a calculated risk but got it wrong. OK, we all make mistakes but take it on the chin, put it down to experience and learn from it.
I think that BW have been more than fair by giving 75% refund when they had no obligation to do so.

The OP should look up the word "deposit" and find out what it means; the whole point is that if the buyer backs out for unjustifiable reasons, as in this case for example, (nothing wrong with the boat as such, just that the buyer's taste changed overnight) he loses his deposit.

Here, the OP didn't lose his deposit, but got 75% of it back!! What's to whinge about?

 

[lovezoo]

The OP should look up the word "deposit" and find out what it means; the whole point is that if the buyer backs out for unjustifiable reasons, as in this case for example, (nothing wrong with the boat as such, just that the buyer's taste changed overnight) he loses his deposit.

I'm afraid that simply isn't true. It all depends on what the actual contract the OP signed says happens to the deposit. Unless the contract states otherwise, the wronged-party is only entitled to their actual losses. They can't just pluck a figure out of the air, or say you can't have any of it back.

Unless you know what is in the contract the OP signed, all of this is speculation.

 

[CX54WEK]

I'm afraid that simply isn't true. It all depends on what the actual contract the OP signed says happens to the deposit. Unless the contract states otherwise, the wronged-party is only entitled to their actual losses. They can't just pluck a figure out of the air, or say you can't have any of it back.

Unless you know what is in the contract the OP signed, all of this is speculation.

Unless the contract the OP signed is significantly different to the one we signed at Burton Waters a few years ago (which i doubt) then it quite clearly states that the deposit is only returnable due to certain circumstances. Changing your mind aint one of them im afraid.

We had a very smooth purchase process when we bought our boat with Burton Waters and will certainly use them again.

 

[Philiz]

I can understand where the OP us coming from, it would have been nice if BW had said 'sorry you've changed your mind sir, hope we can do business in the future, meanwhile here's your £1000 back' but they had put time and effort into the deal up to that point and I don't think £250 is too bad for backing out on the deal through no ones fault but your own.

I don't see this as any bad publicity for BW and it certainly wouldn't stop me from using them. You pay your depost after you've done all your homework, not before.

Put it down to experience and move on and happy boating with your chosen vessel!