Burton Waters & a costly learning curve

[SpottyDog5]

Whilst BW might be technically correct, If you ask me its short sighted in business, far better to exceed expectations and get punters talking about you for the right reasons.
Hope they think their £250 was worth it, what did it really cost them ?

 

[hlb]

I dont understand the £1000 deposit on a £110,000 grand boat. 10% would be normal.

What was the Op attempting to achieve with his grand.??

 

[kanajobe48]

Hi, we bought our boat through burton waters, and I have to say to say they have all been brilliant in both the delivery and the after sales help, earlier this year,we turned to burton waters after 4 years of owning our boat to seek advise on some structural hull damage,we ended up having had some major work done, which was out of warrantee, but they have helped in persuading the manufacture to cover under warrantee, saving tens of thousands of pounds I have recommended them to friends who have bought a boat from them and they have also found them to be helpful in sorting any problems that arise.
I think that the moral of this story is that we all have different experiences of the same company that may be completely different, I think that going on an open forum to diminish a company's reputation is out of order. It doesn't allow the other party to argue their side of the story properly.
I have no connection to button waters other than above but find it disturbing that a reputation of quality business is questioned over one incident when they probably have countless more customers who are very with their service which do not put into these type of forums.
Nathan

 

[[2068]]

FlowerPower came from Burton Waters as "Bumble".

Couldn't tolerate a boat named "Bumble", but other than that, I would quite happily buy another boat from them. And I think the £250 charge was quite reasonable in the circumstances.

 

[Doug_Stormforce]

The whole point of a deposit is that you are committing to buying the boat. It proves you have 100% intention of completing the purchase. The concept of a refundable deposit contridicts the concept of agreeing a deal.

I wonder what the OP would have said if the broker/dealer phoned him the following day and said I have changed my mind, we are going to sell it to someone else.

 

[lovezoo]

The whole point of a deposit is that you are committing to buying the boat. It proves you have 100% intention of completing the purchase. The concept of a refundable deposit contridicts the concept of agreeing a deal.

Except that the OP stated

it did say on the contract "any cancellation would be subject to an admin charge".

Which suggests to me that the contract recognised that the deposit was refundable - although without seeing the contract we have no idea under what circumstances the contract could be cancelled and what the "admin charge" amounts to etc.

 

[mhph]

Whilst BW might be technically correct, If you ask me its short sighted in business, far better to exceed expectations and get punters talking about you for the right reasons.
Hope they think their £250 was worth it, what did it really cost them ?

A sensible comment at last.

After the initial 5 days of non contact from BW I finally received an e-mail from sales admin asking for my address as they were going to post a refund by cheque....the whole amount.Less than a minute later another e-mail cancelling the one just sent.
Then a few minutes after that an e-mail from the MD, very curt and blunt, which was actually meant for sales admin but accidentally copied to me.Then another from sales admin apologizing for the MD`s but then saying about the admin charge.

If I had been the MD I would have sacked the salesman(who never contacted me at all) for allowing me to walk away.I was a cash buyer wanting to do business with them.

At the end of the day £250 was money well spent and knowing what I know now would have gladly lost the whole £1k to be shot of them.

To a responder: The £1k was a deposit on the full deposit, because it was almost office closing(could only do it by cc)and I was going to transfer the remainder the next day.

Fortunately that evening I received the aforementioned advice from someone on here (who seems now to be one of the few sane and sensible people here),not only about the technicalities, but about BW themselves, and so it has been proven.Other people have been satisfied, lucky you.

Yes I fully admit I was naive,impulsive with a lot to learn.We all have to start somewhere, but now thanks to my contact I have learned an awful lot in a short period of time.He has been of enormous assistance in the pursuance through the buying process(and technicalities) of a boat which will hopefully be ours soon.

 

[petem]

Except that the OP stated


Which suggests to me that the contract recognised that the deposit was refundable - although without seeing the contract we have no idea under what circumstances the contract could be cancelled and what the "admin charge" amounts to etc.

I disagree. The OP has stated that the deposit was refunded out of goodwill. I agree with JFM that he appears to have reneged on the deal and therefore he is lucky that they have refunded anything. This business about fair admin charges is a smoke screen IMHO. If the broker has reneged on the deal and offered the OP £250 as compensation I'm sure that he would be moaning like stink.

I also find it rather bad form when someone comes on here to criticise a third party then complain when he doesn't get unanimous support for his cause. I also find it even more amazing that someone who's willing to spend £100,000 doesn't realise that the OFT probably have bigger things to worry about!

The OP should also get used to being fleeced, if he thought £250 was painful then he needs to chill out a little as there is plenty more bills coming his way in the years ahead.

On the bright side, he's made an excellent choice of boat!

 

[Elessar]

A sensible comment at last.

Hmmm.

Only those who sympathise with you are sensible it seems.

And most don't.

Welcome to the forum frequented by mostly stupid people. In your world at least.........

Now whilst I agree with SD3, the willingness of the company to give you an (entirely discretionary) refund would be closely linked to the way you dealt with them IMHO. If you spoke to the company like you dismiss the views of people here I'm surprised they didn't keep the lot.

 

[rubberduck]

I would say that BW acted pretty fairly, & that the MD would have found it rather tricky to sack the salesman for letting you walk, when you walked because of your expert adviser who probably isn't. Employment law & all that. With the greatest of respect do you really think it is wise running down a company on a public forum when your case is shaky at best. Still, not to worry in this case as BW, if aware, are probably quite amused & perhaps happy to be shot of you. !!!!

 

[petem]

This business reminds me of when I was selling my boat. The broker (long since gone) took a deposit (can't remember the amount) then some time later refunded it without my permission as the purchaser had changed his mind. I was not impressed. People ought to take the signing of contracts and payments more seriously. If the OP wasn't sure about his purchase he should have waited until he was. One hopes that this if this wasn't a stock boat (as the OP says it was) that BW would not have returned the deposit at all without consulting the seller.

 

[wetline]

"I did seek advice but didn't wait for a response"
"He seemed to throw his dummy out of the pram"
"Are you an apologist for Burton Waters?"
"numbnut salesmen"
"Another apologist for BW"
"......nah can't be bothered anymore"
"If I had been the MD I would have sacked the salesman"
"Other people have been satisfied, lucky you"


Sorry, but this says a lot in my book.

You signed a contract - you changed your mind - you expect your money back ?

 

[mhph]

I disagree. The OP has stated that the deposit was refunded out of goodwill. I agree with JFM that he appears to have reneged on the deal and therefore he is lucky that they have refunded anything. This business about fair admin charges is a smoke screen IMHO. If the broker has reneged on the deal and offered the OP £250 as compensation I'm sure that he would be moaning like stink.

I also find it rather bad form when someone comes on here to criticise a third party then complain when he doesn't get unanimous support for his cause. I also find it even more amazing that someone who's willing to spend £100,000 doesn't realise that the OFT probably have bigger things to worry about!

The OP should also get used to being fleeced, if he thought £250 was painful then he needs to chill out a little as there is plenty more bills coming his way in the years ahead.

On the bright side, he's made an excellent choice of boat!

It was Mandy Peters who suggested the OFT.Do you find that amazing?

 

[SpottyDog5]

FlowerPower came from Burton Waters as "Bumble".

Couldn't tolerate a boat named "Bumble", but other than that, I would quite happily buy another boat from them. And I think the £250 charge was quite reasonable in the circumstances.

When I bought SpottyDog, it was also called "Bumble", it too has a Burton Waters sticker on the back, although, I didn't purchase her from them.
Had to change the name, it always made me think of Bungle from rainbow....

 

[petem]

It was Mandy Peters who suggested the OFT.Do you find that amazing?

Who know's, maybe she was fobbing you off?

At the end of the day you made a legal comittment to buy the boat. You changed your mind. Burton Waters could well be entitled to sell the boat for a lower price and recover the difference (£1000's) from you so I think you got off lightly.

Pete

 

[lovezoo]

At the end of the day you made a legal comittment to buy the boat. You changed your mind. Burton Waters could well be entitled to sell the boat for a lower price and recover the difference (£1000's) from you so I think you got off lightly.

Pete

Lots of assumptions there, given that we haven't seen the contract.

 

[volvopaul]

In the marine world contracts are contracts, but you must be upfront in my opinion which means BW should have stated in print the cancellation cost before the OP handed over his credit card.

I have in the past had servicing work and been out to boats to give quotes for work not to be paid after ordering parts/paying for them for me to have to stock them, its only happened a couple of times to be fair but it happens when clients circumstances change, maybe because the boats been sold etc.

I wish i was in a position to claim for travel, for time taken to return parts to a dealer etc, it just cannot happen, its just a road to loosing clients and getting a bad name for ones self, BW should have lived with it in my opinion, now its on here I hope AC reads this, maybe it would have been the best £250 hes even given back, as I look at it like this.

No contracts drawn up just a holding deposit, no paperwork submitted, no phone calls made, just 1 credit card transaction say 60pence and 1 cheque and a stamp/envilope say £1 at the outside.

The attitude and the way it was handled is somewhat different to how a mainstream UK boat dealer should be, especially in this economic climate, personally id have spoken to Sealine direct for guideance how there dealer should handle themselves, in my opinon it as just sour grapes because the OP wanted to buy elsewhere.

 

[Croc]

I don't know what sort of world the OP lives in. I had been in business for over 40 years on my own account before I bought my first motor boat... from Harleyford. The deal was straight. I liked the salesman he told me nothing about the boat that was not true.
Sometime later I traded this vessel in at Burton Waters for a brand new boat. I thought they gave me a fair deal. The boat has not been trouble-free but the faults were not of BW's making but that of the manufacturer and the engine maker. All jobs they did on the boat to bring it up to what we required were excellently and elegantly completed... I might have argued about the price but I find that when you have exactly what you want a few months later you cannot remember the price...when you do not get what you want whatever price you paid you will be unhappy about it.
All dealings with BW have been conducted in a pleasant courteous manner even when we were in dispute. I like the company and the company is the people you deal with and I like them. I had no dealings with them beforeI walked into their shopwroom in Ipswich in October. Since then I have had to be in contact with them virtually every week and at no time have I found them unfair or unreasonable.
There is an ancient tale out of the East of an old man sitting outside the gates of the desert city .A stanger approached him and asked what the city and its people were like. The old man instead of telling him asked how the people were in his own city " They are fine people honest and welcoming"
"Well" the old man said "You will find they are much the same in my city"
An hour later another stranger approach the old man and asked what the city and its people were like. Again the old man asked how the people were in the stranger's city. "Mean, deceitful and constantly trying to steal from you"
"Oh dear"the old man said " I am afraid you will find the people of my city much the same".

 

[Jim@sea]

You should remember that the moment you paid your deposit (with no conditions like Subject to Survey or Subject to Marine Morgage) the boat was taken off sale and you then became a debtor. What if the boat had been on brokerage and the seller had rung the owner with the good news that the boat was sold and they had taken £1000 deposit.
So they have retained £250, I hope it went to the boat salesman. He had done his job. As far as I am aware BW appears to have acted with perfect decorum.
Perhaps we should adopt the French way of taking deposits on houses.
If you like it you sign a 7 day compromise. After 7 days if you havent changed your mind you pay a 10% deposit (non refundable) If you change your mind the seller gets it. If he changes his mind the seller has to give the buyer a sum equal to 10% of the purchase price.

 

[nick_anderson]

Although i may read mby from time to time i dont really bother with it too much, however, i would like to stick up for BW. They are an honest bunch and i have never heard anything negative about them, Adam is an honest individual and has grown the business significantly over the years.
Anyway, my point! I put a 9k deposit down on a boat last May with a well knkwn Cranchi dealer. After a couple of weeks post the survey etc.... I decided to buy an apartment at Honeycombe beach in Bournemouth instead, i couldnt afford the 2 and ended up pulling out of the Cranchi deal. The broker was very suppportive and i ended up losing c£750 plus out of pocket expenses which i thought was more than fair, we all need to make a fair crust and i think 250 quid isnt a bad result probably a couple of tanks of petrol in the car!
Happy boating.