Buckingham 20 restoration, formerly Plant Pot

[waynes world]

Re: The plant pot

Hi Wayne ...looking at your engine well and transome cutout .....Dunno what size engine you propose to fit but are you sure it's wide enough to permit turning the engine from lock to lock without the engine casing fouling the sides of the cutout ? Keep up the good work .
Cheers Terry

Hi Terry.

Yes i tried it out and it takes the 10hp i ave here easy, I taken sizes of another boat when i made it that had a 30hp on it si it should be ok.

I have no worries that when i go up to a 30hp or thereabouts i can alter things a little if need be, just a mater to make the cut out more square.

I could do it now but me being me i like the shape as it is, only reason i made it this shape and not square lol.

 

[waynes world]

Re: The plant pot

Now then Deeeep Breath

This weekend I finished the sand blasting of below the water line. One thing is it is good that I always expect the worst as this is not such bad news.....honest lol.

This is the set up I used.

I didnt use Soda as it is very expensive and goes know where so I used with full PPA Kiln dried sand. I say full PPA as besides full overalls as we know sand gets in every orifice there is. An old welding mask with just the clear lens and a piece of leather stuck over the back. Along with a few decent dust masks and not the cheap pound shop type so I could at least breath.

The compressors give together around 23CFM, well thats what they state but they dont give full capacity.
I piped them both together with 10mm air line to 8mm then to the reg/filter which was set to 90psi on the Blast tank.

I used 4 bags of 25kg sand and had to filter them 3 times with a large sieve, a bit big hole size wise but it worked well and got no blockages.

All ready to blast

The back end is not to good either and after a poke around from bow to mid point ( back end of the keel ) I stopped as the marking pencil ran out going around he bad areas to be fixed lol.

Lots of osmosis, many many small areas that the gel coat has cracked and opened up will poking around and chipping off.. Old bad repairs to be redone and some ore larger cavities to be filled and made good.

You mite be able to make out some of the areas i marked out to be done.

When i finished there I got on with the engine cover, i made a mistake with the mould i was making from foam as i ddint leave enough room for the engine when tilited back.

easy enough to glue a few more sections together.

Sanded to shape ready for four laminations of 650grm combo matt.

Once again as always I used plenty of PVA Blue release to and covered all other areas to save on a difficult clean up.



Bear with for the finished product

Good and bad but T has dragged me away from the boat for a week in a few weeks time on a family holiday, get a bit of fishing done and relax though

I was tempted to come back if it is going to be nice weather to do a bit on the hull for a day or so as not going to far away.

I got ` The look` from T when i mentioned that lol.

 

[[167227]]

Re: The plant pot

Just read from start to finish... unreal work man really awesome. Im doing a similar restoration (mine was a little better when i started) so you've given me some serious motivation.

Keep it up mate ill be watching

 

[waynes world]

Re: The plant pot

Just read from start to finish... unreal work man really awesome. Im doing a similar restoration (mine was a little better when i started) so you've given me some serious motivation.

Keep it up mate ill be watching

After today I need some motivation back I think.

Feeling a little disheartened for some reason.


Could be what I have found but then i was expecting to re laminate/sheath the hull over anyway, maybe just not wanting to in the back on my mind.

Anyway glad it has given you motivation to get on with yours I am sure yours will be less work so crack on




Not to motivated this weekend myself, dont know why just not with it for some reason so little done.

I got on with the engine cover a little but no pics sorry. Just trimmed back and sanded back a little and shaped it.

I know, more hull pics but to share my trauma with you all

Be rude not to know lol.

I had a poke and scrape around to see what is what and what needs doing.

It defo needs a re laminate/sheath over, the cavities are scary, I am sure it is not water ingress but when it was made it was done by an apprentice I am sure as I have never seen a boat as bad as this from osmosis or anything else water related damage.

I tapped around here and there and scraped back to find all these cavities. A lot started as small crack but a lot there was nothing to be seen at first but a hollow sound to show up the cavity.

These pics are from the first third of the port side from the bow and an 1/2 inch / 12mm chisel

a little high end osmosis along with a nice gig cavity

This started as a small <10mm crack

similar to this how they started

This tends to a lot along the lower chines, a good few mm deep i would say.

Top chine edge where I easily removed the old repair, it just peeled away with ease.A ggo 2m in total along the whole chine.

This was a repair to the keel.

You think this could be why i am a little disheartened lol.


Now the plan is..............to fix the bloody thing.


It is not going to come cheap to repair but hye ho silver lining and all that.


The cavities will be filled with Poly filler a si dont see the point in using epoxy when i NEED to re laminate the hull. And it will be done with 450grm Biaxial matt and West system Epoxy.

Fill hole and make good. apply epoxy resin and Laminate then a good one more coat of epoxy resin and Squeegees out then apply peel ply which will not be easy as the hull has a few curves and edges which will make it difficult to keep flat as peel ply does not flow like CSM.

Just means more sanding to be done.


I will be doing this in sections a sand when as with the weather and time it will not be easy in one job with out being in a work shop.

One other thing i was going to roll the boat some how as we know, now it will be done as in situ.





I have to admit, i laid there for a few minutes after i finished poking around and thinking is it worth it now. I have had these thoughts in the past when i was a little tired and other things on my mind but this time i was serious and if i had done the hull check over from the start i would not of carried on a cut it up i think.

 

[Keith-i]

Re: The plant pot

Don't be too despondent Wayne; I know how you feel. Whilst it certainly seems like a lot of work, do you really need to sheathe the whole thing in mat and resin? That seems like a lot of work and expense to fix a number of isolated patches. Would it not be better to deal with each area you've found on an individual basis and then coat the whole thing in an epoxy paint for the sake of appearance and osmosis protection?

 

[Bouba]

Re: The plant pot

Wayne, take some time off, recharge your batteries. Occasionally visit a marina or boat dealer. Before you know it you will be busting a gut to get going again. It's just a setback, the heavens haven't conspired against you, its just one more job

 

[vas]

Re: The plant pot

W.,

it's part of the rebuilt process mate!
you're way beyond the point of no return, so there's only one way ahead...
Had a few of such moments when rebuilting MiToS (and that was much earlier in the 4yr process)

Not that familiar with GRP repairs, so don't know if you should go for the full sheathing or not (I'd probably do the full tbh) but for sure using peel ply mat is going to be a pig of a job, why not use couple of layers of thin CSM instead? (I'm probably missing something but I've regretted using nicely weaved mat on MiToS as it wont take corners or curves nicely, and sanding means you cut the continuity of the mat)

relax, take a break and come back, by xmass you wont even remember the days!

cheers

V.

 

[Bigplumbs]

Re: The plant pot

Wayne

Keep going I know it looks bad and gets to you at times but as others have said go to a marina and look at some boats it will inspire you. If anyone can fix that hull I know you can. Things like this always look better a few days later

Dennis

 

[petem]

Re: The plant pot

Wayne, for those of us (like me) that know nothing of such things, those damaged sections look very scary. But as others have said, if anyone can fix them, you can, and your skill and description of the repairs if very informative to us all. And after all, boats are made from fibreglass as it's a material that is strong and comparatively easy to fix.

So please have a couple of days off, recharge your batteries and get the job done! We're all waiting to see that beautifully finished and painted hull, probably stronger and better looking than ever.

 

[anoccasionalyachtsman]

Re: The plant pot

I had a bit of a moment like that too, but thankfully not as extensive.

I'd spend a bit more on filler - P38 or equivalent. Polyfilla is just a bit too attractive to trapped water. If not, polyester resin and sawdust etc. I once used flour, but it ends up a bit rubbery.

I'd sheath the whole lot too. Peel ply can be tricky to stick down properly, but I'd definitely use vacuum. If you're wetting out on a table and confident that you haven't overdone it, you don't really need to worry about sucking out excess resin, so just use it to hold it down nicely.

 

[waynes world]

Re: The plant pot

Don't be too despondent Wayne; I know how you feel. Whilst it certainly seems like a lot of work, do you really need to sheathe the whole thing in mat and resin? That seems like a lot of work and expense to fix a number of isolated patches. Would it not be better to deal with each area you've found on an individual basis and then coat the whole thing in an epoxy paint for the sake of appearance and osmosis protection?

No to despondent mate. Just had a moment, you know head in hands and deep breath, that fix`s me

These area i show are just a fraction of the under water area. there is another 12-15 sqm to go at.

I have priced it up and yes not cheap but the cost is in the epoxy alone at near £350 for 30kg, the rest of the materials are not to bad.

To re laminate means a proper job done and prevents any other weak spots show up. As if just epoxy painted over to me is just bodging it really. There was 5 coats of paint hiding all the tiny cracks. The sand blasting helped show up the tiny osmosis bubbles and a few more cavities.

Wayne, take some time off, recharge your batteries. Occasionally visit a marina or boat dealer. Before you know it you will be busting a gut to get going again. It's just a setback, the heavens haven't conspired against you, its just one more job

And the last big job i reckon as the whole boat has been done but for this area so good things ahead.

And we are off on a family holiday end of this week for a week down North Wales, i have nabbed two days on my tod to do a few fishing sessions which i am looking forward to

This may say that i need a break away from the boat as where we are going is only 120 miles away. I was tempted to come home for a day or two to work on the boat if it was nice.

See i need help i think......nah i do need help lol.

W.,

it's part of the rebuilt process mate!
you're way beyond the point of no return, so there's only one way ahead...
Had a few of such moments when rebuilting MiToS (and that was much earlier in the 4yr process)

Not that familiar with GRP repairs, so don't know if you should go for the full sheathing or not (I'd probably do the full tbh) but for sure using peel ply mat is going to be a pig of a job, why not use couple of layers of thin CSM instead? (I'm probably missing something but I've regretted using nicely weaved mat on MiToS as it wont take corners or curves nicely, and sanding means you cut the continuity of the mat)

relax, take a break and come back, by xmass you wont even remember the days!

cheers

V.

Hi V.

Yes as above,off for a break soon and i can say i need it as been busy with all sorts aswell as the boat.

On re laminating it, what weave did you use ?

I have used Carbon Twill weave fabric before and found it real good to follow shapes so that coud be a better choice than Biaxial.

See below for the idea for turning the boat over to make the use of Peel ply easier. Lots to think of on that

Wayne

Keep going I know it looks bad and gets to you at times but as others have said go to a marina and look at some boats it will inspire you. If anyone can fix that hull I know you can. Things like this always look better a few days later

Dennis

My intensions exactly next week

Wayne, for those of us (like me) that know nothing of such things, those damaged sections look very scary. But as others have said, if anyone can fix them, you can, and your skill and description of the repairs if very informative to us all. And after all, boats are made from fibreglass as it's a material that is strong and comparatively easy to fix.

So please have a couple of days off, recharge your batteries and get the job done! We're all waiting to see that beautifully finished and painted hull, probably stronger and better looking than ever.

It was just a kick in the lower region, pain has now faded

I just rebuilt my Beach caster ready to go, yes my old 25 year + old rod, i cant help it can i but fix things lol.

New reel seat and grips aswell

First attempt at whipping rod eyes on, i have just got the resin for it to finish off before friday when we go away.

I had a bit of a moment like that too, but thankfully not as extensive.

I'd spend a bit more on filler - P38 or equivalent. Polyfilla is just a bit too attractive to trapped water. If not, polyester resin and sawdust etc. I once used flour, but it ends up a bit rubbery.

I'd sheath the whole lot too. Peel ply can be tricky to stick down properly, but I'd definitely use vacuum. If you're wetting out on a table and confident that you haven't overdone it, you don't really need to worry about sucking out excess resin, so just use it to hold it down nicely.

I have a good supplier of commercial GRP filler, only poly but great smooth fine stuff. This will be used to fill then as said above i think re laminate with West coast system.




I may have mentioned this before, yes i am sure i have but the is the roll jig i have come up with to turn the boat just 90 degrees.

Only concern is the Bow mount point and if the Bow will take the weight.

The Bow will have a braked drum as above but there will be a 400mmx300mm plate either side of the Bow bolted through the hull into the anchor locker and then braced to each other inside the locker.

From the Bow plates a tube will be welded and braced to a round plate that bolts onto the brake drum which is attached to the front frame.

All sound good to me to keep the boat in control as it is being turned by the winch. Hand Brake for control and holding in place whilst chocking the keel.

Any thoughts on this mad cap plan i have ? more about the Bow mount point.



Thanks guys for the encouragement, no chance i will throw the towel in now. I just love the boat to much, well i wouldnt of gone this far with it if i didnt

 

[[167227]]

Re: The plant pot

After today I need some motivation back I think.

Feeling a little disheartened for some reason.


Could be what I have found but then i was expecting to re laminate/sheath the hull over anyway, maybe just not wanting to in the back on my mind.

Anyway glad it has given you motivation to get on with yours I am sure yours will be less work so crack on

Chin up mate, it won't be a problem to you once you get stuck in

 

[waynes world]

Re: The plant pot

Chin up mate, it won't be a problem to you once you get stuck in

Hi Rhys, ( just guessing your name )


Yes i know, not a problem but you know when you are tired and things going on and you need things done etc etc.

I couldnt help myself but do a bit more, not on the hull as that can wait.

I did a little more on the engine cover, it needs more strength yet etc but this is the shape it has ended up being.

It is going to be fully removable and the top have a trim around or maybe made more horizontal with a trim around as when i boot it the beers will not roll off lol.

So thats it for a week or so,

Wales here I come

Oh and a few nice cold ice cold Ciders

 

[waynes world]

Re: The plant pot

Ok back at it and after thoughts while fishing and eating and drinking loads i have decided to sheath the complete hull to just past the first chine.



Reason being as said earlier, by times i have done all the repairs needed and filled all the osmosis holes theer will be still tiny cracks that need to be sorted out.

Cant just paint over them with either an epoxy paint or epoxy resin. just not the right thing to do, or best thing. It would be like bodging it up like it has been in the past

Plan is to fill the shallow repairs with usual GRP filler then the deeper cavities use Polyester resin with CSM and Combination.

Matting will be 300grm CSM then on top 280 Twill weave fabric, this will make it easier to do as i do have a lot of 650grm combination matting but that is heavy to work with on your own upside down. Also the Twill weave is very good for getting into a radius and corners. The 650 matting is not. Also the Twill has a much smoother finish.

Once that is done its a choice of either coats of Flocoat or Epoxy resin.

Oh and lots and lots of sanding back oh joys

Going to order the materials this week and do as i go, weather dependent.

Meanwhile crack on with the interior.


My best catch of the week beside a few Mack`s for the BBQ and a small pouting.

 

[sarabande]

Re: The plant pot

A doggie ! The skin used to be used for sandpaper. Take it home for the boat and be really authentic


Good decision on re-sheathing BTW. It will be simpler and much more resilient. Also give you a bit more weight below the water line.

 

[waynes world]

Re: The plant pot

A doggie ! The skin used to be used for sandpaper. Take it home for the boat and be really authentic


Good decision on re-sheathing BTW. It will be simpler and much more resilient. Also give you a bit more weight below the water line.

how very dare you a `doggie` it is a Bull Huss, a real mini shark lol

I had a few LSD aswell so i could of used the sand paper soon lol.

Yes i think good choice, been bashing my head all week over what to do, a lot more work but then better.

 

[Restoration man]

Re: The plant pot

Hi Wayne I'm no expert In this field But I've read somewhere that if you have some osmosis blisters you need to chip / grind the heads off to expose the matting and repeatedly wash out the holes left with a hose or pressure washer then let it dry out and repeat this process , somthing about a type of acid in the blisters ? This can take a few months Maybee tent the bottom off so it keeps it warmer ? This could take a few months to clean and dry out , you don't want to take any chances with this as the glassing is going be a lot of work and you don't want to have blisters reappearing after you have re glassed the hull , so why not crack on with the rest of the boat and in your down time just clean the blisters and exposed matting out and do the wash every now and then. And glass up the hull as the last job ?
Nick

 

[waynes world]

Re: The plant pot

Hi Wayne I'm no expert In this field But I've read somewhere that if you have some osmosis blisters you need to chip / grind the heads off to expose the matting and repeatedly wash out the holes left with a hose or pressure washer then let it dry out and repeat this process , somthing about a type of acid in the blisters ? This can take a few months Maybee tent the bottom off so it keeps it warmer ? This could take a few months to clean and dry out , you don't want to take any chances with this as the glassing is going be a lot of work and you don't want to have blisters reappearing after you have re glassed the hull , so why not crack on with the rest of the boat and in your down time just clean the blisters and exposed matting out and do the wash every now and then. And glass up the hull as the last job ?
Nick

Hi Nick

There is only two areas of around 2sqm at most of Osmosis and the majority of the bubbles ( all bubbles less than 5mm diameter ) have been open for years on dry dock/ well a field , not including the 2+ years it has been sat here. So they should be dry as can be.

There are a few ways to go about this and once i get under the boat and start i will see what to about them, i will be starting soon on osmosis and the main repairs as and when but as you mention it i think i will start on digging into the osmosis asap so if i need to clean it all out then i have the time for it to dry. see whats what anyway, this has held the completion up a good time but hey ho, it will be done soon enough.

Thanks Nick

 

[davidej]

Re: The plant pot

A really stoic response to a serious set-back.

My congratulations to you and best of luck.

 

[waynes world]

Re: The plant pot

A really stoic response to a serious set-back.

My congratulations to you and best of luck.

I had to look that word up ( Stoic ) for what it means. oh how i show my feelings when i smack my head on the hull or trying to get out from under the rear deck lol.

Just a wee set back, cant get any worse now.......can it lol