Buckingham 20 restoration, formerly Plant Pot

[anoccasionalyachtsman]

Re: The plant pot

Not sure about the compressed air plan - just a few psi is all it would take to delaminate any cored area. If the source is a pin hole in the gel, I'd have thought that you'd close that with filler primer before painting. But I may have misunderstood your thoughts on the location...

 

[waynes world]

Re: The plant pot

Not sure about the compressed air plan - just a few psi is all it would take to delaminate any cored area. If the source is a pin hole in the gel, I'd have thought that you'd close that with filler primer before painting. But I may have misunderstood your thoughts on the location...

The shell is solid GRP with no core anywhere in it.

Do you think the air pressure would damage the solid shell ?

For some time I have been trying to find the where the water is getting in but to no avail. All I can think of is it being a pin hole or even fine crack which is very hard to find/see as a lot of the cabin top has a rough mottled surface.

I would rather , if i can, find where the water is getting in than just paint over it. If that is what it comes to then I will.

 

[snowbird30ds]

Re: The plant pot

For your water leak one of the best ways is to chuck chalkdust around and it will soon show any damp and where it's come from, the developer spray I use at work is great as it leaves a fine dust that absorbs anything damp and conveniently in an aerosol, used it many times to find water trails that have gone by the time I get there.

 

[waynes world]

Re: The plant pot

For your water leak one of the best ways is to chuck chalkdust around and it will soon show any damp and where it's come from, the developer spray I use at work is great as it leaves a fine dust that absorbs anything damp and conveniently in an aerosol, used it many times to find water trails that have gone by the time I get there.

I found it easy to find the leak/s inside as it was covered in the dust from when I was grinding away at the GRP. Then to pin point it I just used tissue on the inner surface..

Sorry I may not of explained this problem clearly.

I know where the water is dripping on the inside but not where it is getting in from the outside.

GRP works on a capillary action so once the water can get into the lamination`s it will work its way around until it finds its way out..

 

[Bouba]

Re: The plant pot

I found it easy to find the leak/s inside as it was covered in the dust from when I was grinding away at the GRP. Then to pin point it I just used tissue on the inner surface..

Sorry I may not of explained this problem clearly.

I know where the water is dripping on the inside but not where it is getting in from the outside.

GRP works on a capillary action so once the water can get into the lamination`s it will work its way around until it finds its way out..

Your work is going great. Forgive me for my ignorance but I thought that it's the gelcoat that is the waterproof layer

 

[waynes world]

Re: The plant pot

Your work is going great. Forgive me for my ignorance but I thought that it's the gelcoat that is the waterproof layer

Yes the Gel coat is the waterproof layer. but if there is a crack or hole and kind of damage then water can get into the laminated GRP. If Gel coat is damaged then the waterproof seal is broke.

come to think of it i read the other day that Gel coat is not water proof and absorbs water, thats new to me .

I will search to see where I read it, very bizzare hey.

 

[anoccasionalyachtsman]

Re: The plant pot

Ah sorry Wayne, I wrongly assumed that there would be a balsa core in there. But yes, if you were unlucky you could do damage if 'solid' laminate had a weakness in it. I'd suggest trying the proven methods that others have already suggested, and will offer my sympathy because deck leaks can be a nightmare to find.

 

[henryf]

Re: The plant pot

Have you sealed the hand rails properly?

They could represent a possible entry point for water.

Henry

 

[waynes world]

Re: The plant pot

Ah sorry Wayne, I wrongly assumed that there would be a balsa core in there. But yes, if you were unlucky you could do damage if 'solid' laminate had a weakness in it. I'd suggest trying the proven methods that others have already suggested, and will offer my sympathy because deck leaks can be a nightmare to find.

What the frustrating part is that it takes so long to get through the tests. It only leaks in after very hard rain or long periods.

For some reason i am not that worried. I dont think it will damage the laminate and the pressure will be regulated therefore stating at a very low pressure.

Have you sealed the hand rails properly?

They could represent a possible entry point for water.

Henry

When i fitted them i ensured there was a good amount of Sikalfex 291 i used and all areas had been cleaned back. That is still not to say ir is not that though.

I plan to tape over/seal the mount plates and see what happens again a si have done this before. Trouble is i need to do a mount at a time......very time consuming.

 

[Bouba]

Re: The plant pot

This may not help.....on Wheeler Dealers Ed China put a smoke machine in a car and then you can see all the leaks from the outside......just a thought

 

[sarabande]

Re: The plant pot

How soon after ran does the leak appear ?

If fairly quickly, I was wondering about putting some plastic sheet over - say - a quarter of the suspect area, hosing it down, checking, and repeating until you get a better definition of where the possible point of entry is.

 

[KevB]

Re: The plant pot

How soon after ran does the leak appear ?

If fairly quickly, I was wondering about putting some plastic sheet over - say - a quarter of the suspect area, hosing it down, checking, and repeating until you get a better definition of where the possible point of entry is.

Yes, or get some plasticine and dam off areas, fill with water till you found the bit that leaks.

 

[mlines]

Re: The plant pot

And put that Fluorescein drain tracer in the little dam so you can confirm that the water you see on the other side came from that dam and not via some really obscure route from somewhere else on the boat entirely.

 

[waynes world]

Re: The plant pot

Sorry for not getting back quicker, at times i can not log into the forum.

It says `thank you for logging in` but then the next page I am logged out.

Anyway I am back

This may not help.....on Wheeler Dealers Ed China put a smoke machine in a car and then you can see all the leaks from the outside......just a thought

That one will not work as the smoke would not be able to travel through the very fine cavity in the laminated GRP.

How soon after ran does the leak appear ?

If fairly quickly, I was wondering about putting some plastic sheet over - say - a quarter of the suspect area, hosing it down, checking, and repeating until you get a better definition of where the possible point of entry is.

It takes a while to drip through, as you can see from the previous pictures that i was doing that but with a sheet of DPM, and using a hose. I left the hose running for 2 hrs and nothing. Then it rained a few days after and then it dripped.

The problem is it is a very long task to complete. It can a few days for it to drip as it needs a hard down pour or a few days of rain to build it up.

Yes, or get some plasticine and dam off areas, fill with water till you found the bit that leaks.

I got some Blue Tac last week ready for that job. I have been all over the cabin and can not a find a suspect area to dam up. Last summer I repaired every hole and pin hole i could find ( much to SWMBO`s annoyance lol ) before i primed it all. Priming it help show up a few more spots in need of repair.



Today I made the plate with a compressor fitting sealed in place and sealed it to the boat with Sikaflex 219. I will leave it for a few days to set before I try the mad cap idea. If it works fine and is a lot quicker to do.

If no luck i will have to carry on faffing and doing it the long way. It is annoying as it is holding me up on fitting out.

 

[Bouba]

Re: The plant pot

I accidentally touched page 1 of this thread, the state of that boat when you started was diabolic :disgust:

 

[grumpy_o_g]

Re: The plant pot

Could you use some kind of penetrant dye on gel coat? It's designed to look for cracks and pinholes in metal normally - I can't see why it wouldn't work on gel coat but I have zero experience of trying it.

 

[Bouba]

Re: The plant pot

I know the smoke thing might be impractical but the principle is that where the water exits into the cabin is easy to find but because water travels the entry point is a mystery. So you reverse the situation.
Find the leak in the cabin hold a hose on it as tightly as possible and another person checks the deck.
It's drastic it maynot work

 

[waynes world]

Re: The plant pot

I accidentally touched page 1 of this thread, the state of that boat when you started was diabolic :disgust:

I thought you was a follower from the start Bouba.

I like to look back every now and then at the first page or so. Helps me see how far i have come with it.

Could you use some kind of penetrant dye on gel coat? It's designed to look for cracks and pinholes in metal normally - I can't see why it wouldn't work on gel coat but I have zero experience of trying it.

Its an idea. If the suspect area is on the non slip areas it will not be easy to spot. It is worth a look at for the rest of the areas

I know the smoke thing might be impractical but the principle is that where the water exits into the cabin is easy to find but because water travels the entry point is a mystery. So you reverse the situation.
Find the leak in the cabin hold a hose on it as tightly as possible and another person checks the deck.
It's drastic it maynot work

I agree Bouba. I just cant see how the smoke can get through with out help, Unless the cabin is under pressure how will the smoke travel down say a 3 foot cavity that is a few tho wide.

I made this yesterday fro a little experiment. Now then, if i can get smoke into this system maybe from a seperate feed as if i was spraying. That would be better.




At the minute this will just either push any water that is in the cavity out or blow bubbles when i run the water over it.


Make air line fitting bolted through a 2mm steel plate and sealed inplace with a little PTFE and Sikaflex 219

It is held in place at the minute as it sets. I will need to leave for a little longer than specs says as there is a fair old build up. it will be about 24hrs today at 2pm.

I have an gravity feed spray gun here that i could fettle to take a smoke feed maybe.

Leave it with me while i see what i can do

 

[Bouba]

Re: The plant pot

Actually i meant place a water hose on the exit point and see if water escapes on deck.
I have followed the thread from the beginning but it was still a shock!!!

 

[waynes world]

Re: The plant pot

Actually i meant place a water hose on the exit point and see if water escapes on deck.
I have followed the thread from the beginning but it was still a shock!!!

yes but i did this first lol.

Not to keen on the idea of pumping water into the boat more than it needs. Reason I chose air as it could, if it works maybe push any water out. Who knows

So tempted to try it today I cant rush it tough.

This boat has been a good way to learn new things hey. and working things out, coming up with ideas etc etc, just love it most the time