Broker Response Problems. HELP!!

[Dickie D]

Hi all, I’ve done 3 months of research for a family boat, with no previous experience other than a bit of sailing and speedboat hire. I’ve narrowed options down to a Camargue 44. Targa 43 or 40 open are close runners up. I want a boat I can practice in for 3 or 4 years that I accept will take a few dings and then upgrade to something a bit bigger once I am confident. we’re a family of 6 and the kids love the water.

does anyone have any advice on how to approach brokers? I have identified various boats in different locations and my method so far has been to make contact and then follow up with a sensible list of say 12 or so questions. I seem to get a good response rate initially, but when it comes to the questions, there is zero follow up. One boat I saw In the flesh with the broker, I then followed up with 2 questions and got nothing back. And the boat is still for sale!

What am I doing wrong? Do brokers just expect buyers to get their info from surveyors reports once you’re committed? I don’t get it and don’t really understand what sellers are getting for their 8% commission. Do I need to hire a buyers broker to help me? Or do they really expect me to travel all over the country in person to ask questions in person that can’t be gleaned from the mostly minimalist sales particulars?

 

[petem]

Are the boats in the UK?

Some brokers are a bit poor at getting back to you but to be fair there's a lot of fender kickers out there. All you can do is get on the phone to them and try and build a rapport. Also, don't leave a message asking them to call you back. If they're not available, keep phoning until you get hold of them.

Ref Fairlines, there's a big difference between a T40 and a T43.

Also, if you have generic questions , you can ask them here.

 

[BruceK]

........ but to be fair there's a lot of fender kickers out there. .........

I'm not a fan of brokers but to be fair this is true. Lots of dreamers and fender kickers especially in that size market. Build a rapport and dialogue with the broker and yes, travel. I criss-crossed the country several times over several months before finding my boat. Hand on heart it must have been some of the most discouraging times in my boating career.

 

[Dickie D]

Are the boats in the UK?

Some brokers are a bit poor at getting back to you but to be fair there's a lot of fender kickers out there. All you can do is get on the phone to them and try and build a rapport. Also, don't leave a message asking them to call you back. If they're not available, keep phoning until you get hold of them.

Ref Fairlines, there's a big difference between a T40 and a T43.

Also, if you have generic questions , you can ask them here.

Yep mostly UK, 1 just across the channel. I’m curious re your Targa points. Ive been on a T40 and it seemed spacious enough, although missing a bathroom and cheaper to run re mooring and service of smaller engines. I’m due to see a T43 but on paper, there doesnt seem to be an enormous pickup in space....or is there?

 

[Dickie D]

I'm not a fan of brokers but to be fair this is true. Lots of dreamers and fender kickers especially in that size market. Build a rapport and dialogue with the broker and yes, travel. I criss-crossed the country several times over several months before finding my boat. Hand on heart it must have been some of the most discouraging times in my boating career.

Thank you for your response. I think it concurs with what I am finding, but the follow up on even boats I have seen is appalling. A case of they have made their commission for the year perhaps...!

 

[petem]

Yep mostly UK, 1 just across the channel. I’m curious re your Targa points. Ive been on a T40 and it seemed spacious enough, although missing a bathroom and cheaper to run re mooring and service of smaller engines. I’m due to see a T43 but on paper, there doesnt seem to be an enormous pickup in space....or is there?

T40 is on outdrives whereas the old T43 is on shafts. So maintenance, fuel economy, handling, performance, seakeeping, etc are quite different.

 

[Dickie D]

T40 is on outdrives whereas the old T43 is on shafts. So maintenance, fuel economy, handling, performance, seakeeping, etc are quite different.

Thank you, Ive only just realised. & appreciate your feedback. So Im guessing the additional boat length of the 43 really only means deck space as I assume the shafts push the engines a bit forward and compromise cabin space? Im looking at the 40 and 43 to ease us into it and with 4 kids, dont really have much option but to start with a 40+ ft boat. We want to spend the first year around the south coast and then with a bit of experience in yr 2, Channel Islands, and northern France, Holland etc Plan is to keep it for say 3 years, then move up to some of the larger Portfofino's which I fell in love with at Southampton boat show a few years ago. Currently, 50 feet seems a stretch way too far. The Camargue44 is my #1 choice, but Im finding very hard to find in the UK. Do you think we are on the right track with our shortlist?

 

[volvopaul]

Hi all, I’ve done 3 months of research for a family boat, with no previous experience other than a bit of sailing and speedboat hire. I’ve narrowed options down to a Camargue 44. Targa 43 or 40 open are close runners up. I want a boat I can practice in for 3 or 4 years that I accept will take a few dings and then upgrade to something a bit bigger once I am confident. we’re a family of 6 and the kids love the water.

does anyone have any advice on how to approach brokers? I have identified various boats in different locations and my method so far has been to make contact and then follow up with a sensible list of say 12 or so questions. I seem to get a good response rate initially, but when it comes to the questions, there is zero follow up. One boat I saw In the flesh with the broker, I then followed up with 2 questions and got nothing back. And the boat is still for sale!

What am I doing wrong? Do brokers just expect buyers to get their info from surveyors reports once you’re committed? I don’t get it and don’t really understand what sellers are getting for their 8% commission. Do I need to hire a buyers broker to help me? Or do they really expect me to travel all over the country in person to ask questions in person that can’t be gleaned from the mostly minimalist sales particulars?

I read your post with interest as you have more likely picked the absolute worst time ever in past years to try and buy a used boat .
Reason being that used boats are in very short supply , note I didn’t say good used boat because there are very few ones available with UK badges on.

Brokers are having the best year in history , in past months they have not had to try and sell boats they have sold themselves based on supply and demand , the used market has dictated this , I feel for you in your plight asking what your doing wrong .
You have done nothing wrong by the sounds of it , you have more likely been too kind in your questions asked , who ever you have asked are lazy not giving you feedback , plus remember the broker isn’t working for you the buyer , he is working for the seller of the boat he is brokering which again is lazy and very unprofessional.
By the sounds of it they are actually stalling any potential sale for the seller , you will find this .
Perhaps you would like to list who you have already dealt with , I know many brokers on the south coast , they do look at this forum .

 

[[181131]]

Hi all, I’ve done 3 months of research for a family boat, with no previous experience other than a bit of sailing and speedboat hire. I’ve narrowed options down to a Camargue 44. Targa 43 or 40 open are close runners up. I want a boat I can practice in for 3 or 4 years that I accept will take a few dings and then upgrade to something a bit bigger once I am confident. we’re a family of 6 and the kids love the water.

does anyone have any advice on how to approach brokers? I have identified various boats in different locations and my method so far has been to make contact and then follow up with a sensible list of say 12 or so questions. I seem to get a good response rate initially, but when it comes to the questions, there is zero follow up. One boat I saw In the flesh with the broker, I then followed up with 2 questions and got nothing back. And the boat is still for sale!

What am I doing wrong? Do brokers just expect buyers to get their info from surveyors reports once you’re committed? I don’t get it and don’t really understand what sellers are getting for their 8% commission. Do I need to hire a buyers broker to help me? Or do they really expect me to travel all over the country in person to ask questions in person that can’t be gleaned from the mostly minimalist sales particulars?

How I would approach brokers is by sending an inquiry on the boat either through their website or on an advertisement (e.g Yacht market, rightboat etc). Id normally start off saying something like: “good morning/afternoon, I see you have [insert boat make model] for sale is it still available? “ when/if you get a response I’d follow up with some questions E.g how many hours, reason for sale etc, if you don’t get a reply within a couple days chase up seeing if they received it.

Brokerage fees mainly cover the costs of advertising their boats on several websites, they also deal with surveys, organising sea trials etc and to make life of buyers and sellers easier. Brokerage fees vary depending what sort of boat and value of it is, ”standard” brokerage rate is 8% + VAT and for cheaper boats (normally upto £15k) is £1000/£1500 +VAT Depending on what broker you use.
FYI I was a yacht broker before COVID came in ??

 

[Richard.C]

Thank you, Ive only just realised. & appreciate your feedback. So Im guessing the additional boat length of the 43 really only means deck space as I assume the shafts push the engines a bit forward and compromise cabin space? Im looking at the 40 and 43 to ease us into it and with 4 kids, dont really have much option but to start with a 40+ ft boat. We want to spend the first year around the south coast and then with a bit of experience in yr 2, Channel Islands, and northern France, Holland etc Plan is to keep it for say 3 years, then move up to some of the larger Portfofino's which I fell in love with at Southampton boat show a few years ago. Currently, 50 feet seems a stretch way too far. The Camargue44 is my #1 choice, but Im finding very hard to find in the UK. Do you think we are on the right track with our shortlist?

I think a second Heads would be high on my priorities with 4 kids.

 

[Dickie D]

I read your post with interest as you have more likely picked the absolute worst time ever in past years to try and buy a used boat .
Reason being that used boats are in very short supply , note I didn’t say good used boat because there are very few ones available with UK badges on.

Brokers are having the best year in history , in past months they have not had to try and sell boats they have sold themselves based on supply and demand , the used market has dictated this , I feel for you in your plight asking what your doing wrong .
You have done nothing wrong by the sounds of it , you have more likely been too kind in your questions asked , who ever you have asked are lazy not giving you feedback , plus remember the broker isn’t working for you the buyer , he is working for the seller of the boat he is brokering which again is lazy and very unprofessional.
By the sounds of it they are actually stalling any potential sale for the seller , you will find this .
Perhaps you would like to list who you have already dealt with , I know many brokers on the south coast , they do look at this forum .

Thanks volvopaul. I’d prefer not to name anyone as i never know when it might bite me back, but you have just about summed up my problem perfectly re supply and laziness as a result. I’m thinking that maybe I wait a bit longer and forget about catching a few last (cold!) weeks this year and restart my process after December by which time hopefully people realise they can do on holiday again and the used market calms down, brokers have a new financial year to focus on and I dont have to worry about 3 months of unused mooring.

 

[Dickie D]

I think a second Heads would be high on my priorities with 4 kids.

Yes good point !

 

[petem]

You could also add the Princess V series boats to your shortlist.

The brokers that seem to have the most Fairlines are Bates Wharf, Parker Adams, Solent Motoryachts and Boats.co.uk. None of them should mess you around.

I run a Fairline (Owners Club) Group on Facebook where owners often advertise boats for sale.

 

[kashurst]

Brokers can't get enough boats at the moment so they don't need to try very hard - you are not doing anything wrong
6 people on a two bedroom/1 saloon will be cosy which ever boat you go for.
You won't go far wrong with a Fairline Targa 43. Well made, well balanced boat. It's 45 feet long - similar to the Camargue
If you can find one with TAMD74's or better 75's a top boat. The cabins are pretty good and the engines in the middle give good handling/behaviour. Shaft boats are easy to look after too.
If budget allows have a look at the Targa 48 - three cabins and not that much bigger.

 

[Sneds]

Plus 1 for boats.co.uk or Essex Boat Yards as I fondly remember them
Take a day trip there and enjoy a day looking over what they have
Phone first and I’m sure you’ll have an entertaining and informative day

 

[[181131]]

Have you considered the portofino 46? A lot like the camargue 44 but you get a hi-lo swim platform whereas the C44 doesn’t. Can pick them up at around £150k-£175k

 

[kashurst]

Don't discount a Sealine F43 - a flybridge but the most spacious 40 ish foot boat ever made with good performance.

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

Targa 40 is too small for 2 adults and 4 kids. I'd say the T43 was as well, Overall the running costs with the T43 will be lower than the T40 unless you are doing zillions of hours a year in which case the fuel savings with the T40 will begin to show - but for typical 50-100 hour pa use the T40 will cost more due servicing cost of the outdrives. They are both old boats now although the T40 a slightly more modern design. However - in your position I'd be looking at an older T52. Three cabins. Two heads. Shafts. Great seakeeping.

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

PS to your original question about broker response, why don't you just call them? Always more immediate than emailling, and as a gross generalisation, prospects who all are usually more serious (and taken more seriously) than prospects who email

 

[burgundyben]

I run a brokerage service, but I'm a bit of a specialist. I suspect that the brokers selling the more generic stuff dont have a decent crm tool, or they have one they don't use. If I doubled my activity I would have to invest in a tool to help me. Its tough enough with just 8 boats on my list.

You need to make sure that you are a big enough signature on their radar. Phone calls will be orders or magnitude better at this than emails.