British family 'coping well' after being shipwrecked on South Pacific reef

[AMCD300]

Sounds like the Cooper family had a lucky escape. Glad to know they are all ok.

Very sad about their yacht though... a 15m Catamaran, the "Avanti".

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/08/29/british-family-coping-shipwrecked-south-pacific-reef/

 

[dom]

Good to hear everyone is safe and well and top marks to the Coopers and that Martin Vogel character and who seems to have been seriously on the ball. Wait for the daylight and then pull off that liferaft stunt, impressive stuff.

 

[AMCD300]

Good to hear everyone is safe and well and top marks to the Coopers and that Martin Vogel character and who seems to have been seriously on the ball. Wait for the daylight and then pull off that liferaft stunt, impressive stuff.

Indeed. Glad they are all safe. I hear that the insurers are in touch and crowd funding has also raised over 20k.

Today's Daily Mail has a good piece about the incident, with some amazing photographs of the wreck and underwater damage caused by the reef.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4847600/British-couple-marooned-shark-infested-Pacific.html

One interesting comment for me from Bobby about chart scaling and the reef not showing up at the lager (100nm) scales. The small reef was only visible at the lower scale of 12nm, as you would expect, so he did not know the reef was there.

With modern technology as it is however why do chart plotters not give us have the option to raise an alarm if our course brings us into harms way, irrespective of the scale of map on display?

For example, Sat nav systems on land can tell me if there is a toll road 200km into my journey so why can't chartplotters notify us of dangers on our present course when that hazard comes within a pre-determined distance, whatever the scale selected for viewing at the time?

We can do it for AIS proximities so why not have 'depth' proximity alarms?

Andy

 

[RichardS]

With modern technology as it is however why do chart plotters not give us have the option to raise an alarm if our course brings us into harms way, irrespective of the scale of map on display?

Andy

The Navionics autoroute function, now on my Android version as well as the Apple app, can certainly plan a complex route without user assistance and will avoid all schoal areas which are shallower than the draft of my boat. Surely it must therefore be the case that modern chartplotters can do the same if my little tablet can, even though my chartplotter is too old to manage such a feat?

Richard

 

[AMCD300]

Richard - I would like to think the more modern versions do, or could include adaptive route planning to first avoid hazards in planning, then warn during sailing... any forum experts know if this is the case?

Andy

 

[Hadenough]

Richard - I would like to think the more modern versions do, or could include adaptive route planning to first avoid hazards in planning, then warn during sailing... any forum experts know if this is the case?

Andy

My Garmin certainly does. It is very conservative but I regard that as prudent. Also has a 'Hazard review' function which is useful.

 

[GHA]

Richard - I would like to think the more modern versions do, or could include adaptive route planning to first avoid hazards in planning, then warn during sailing... any forum experts know if this is the case?

Andy

Maybe not that much use in the South Atlantic. The reef is reported out of position.

Sounds like this was human error, poor people to have lost so much but it should have been spotted. It's there on cm93 ,and shows up on google satellite.

 

[Wandering Star]

Just read that DM article with pictures, I have huge sympathy for the family and wouldnt criticise their lifes choices etc and I'm hesitant to ask - the pictures show crashing rollers and surf where the boat foundered, surely the crew should have spotted or heard the dramatic (presumably) change in the oceans conditions as it approached the reef? I do understand the settings of the chart cartography meant the reef wasn't displayed, but wouldn't an alert watchkeeper have noticed the changed conditions and breaking waves?

 

[Grumpybear]

Just read that DM article with pictures, I have huge sympathy for the family and wouldnt criticise their lifes choices etc and I'm hesitant to ask - the pictures show crashing rollers and surf where the boat foundered, surely the crew should have spotted or heard the dramatic (presumably) change in the oceans conditions as it approached the reef? I do understand the settings of the chart cartography meant the reef wasn't displayed, but wouldn't an alert watchkeeper have noticed the changed conditions and breaking waves?

I am reminded of that VOR boat that hit a reef in the Indian Ocean. If they, with a big semi professional crew and shore backup could get it wrong, it seems a little harsh to single out an amateur family crew for such criticism.

 

[ex-Gladys]

One of the issues here is accuracy of chart survey. I can't remember whether it was a Clipper or VOR that hit in the Pacific, and the survey was (I think) done by Capt Cook. There is a tendency once you see something in electronic form to take it as gospel, without challenging the underlying data. With an Admiralty chart, a look at one of the corners will show the survey data for the whole chart, and it can be very important...

 

[Richard10002]

One could suggest that one lesson that could be learned is to check every scale of chart available for the whole of your route, whatever the trip. I'm fairly sure that this was a part of my training for 2nd Mates Ticket 40 years ago, so one would have thought it would have found its' way into yachtmaster training... both offshore and ocean??

If the trip is 1000 miles, or so long that that viewing the whole of it at the 12nm scale would take a long time, a regular check of all scales, for a couple of hours ahead, during the trip should be programmed into watchkeeping.

On a long leg, this would actually introduce something to relieve the boredom, so not a particularly onerous task.

 

[GHA]

One could suggest that one lesson that could be learned is to check every scale of chart available for the whole of your route, whatever the trip. I'm fairly sure that this was a part of my training for 2nd Mates Ticket 40 years ago, so one would have thought it would have found its' way into yachtmaster training... both offshore and ocean??

If the trip is 1000 miles, or so long that that viewing the whole of it at the 12nm scale would take a long time, a regular check of all scales, for a couple of hours ahead, during the trip should be programmed into watchkeeping.

On a long leg, this would actually introduce something to relieve the boredom, so not a particularly onerous task.

No real need, no mention of what chart plotter they were using but on a laptop (is there a cruising boat without a laptop?) navionics charts can be viewed small scale, the reef shows up clearly -

SASPlanet can save navionics/google earth satellite images offline as can opencpn. Good idea to avoid seamounts anyway even if there's plenty water - they can kick up some nasty unexpected seas.

 

[Jamesuk]

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With modern technology as it is however why do chart plotters not give us have the option to raise an alarm if our course brings us into harms way, irrespective of the scale of map on display?

We can do it for AIS proximities so why not have 'depth' proximity alarms?

Andy

They do Andy, younjust have to buy the best software to have it.

Furuno Time Zero gives you an anti-grounding cone and Every contour you cross it flags it up at a pre-determined distance.

Perhaps time for a refresher at the boat show.... I probably aim for Düsseldorf finally this year

 

[Richard10002]

They do Andy, younjust have to buy the best software to have it.

Furuno Time Zero gives you an anti-grounding cone and Every contour you cross it flags it up at a pre-determined distance.

Perhaps time for a refresher at the boat show.... I probably aim for Düsseldorf finally this year

Given that the island is 3 miles away from its position on the chart, an automated alarm may not trigger when heading straight for it in reality, but clear water as far as the plotter is concerned.

In a sense, if you don't look at the smallest scale chart in your possession, paper or electronic, you haven't really taken your responsibility seriously. I'm not blaming him/them... it's easy with hindsight, but it rams home a lesson!

 

[AMCD300]

They do Andy, younjust have to buy the best software to have it.

Furuno Time Zero gives you an anti-grounding cone and Every contour you cross it flags it up at a pre-determined distance.

Perhaps time for a refresher at the boat show.... I probably aim for Düsseldorf finally this year

@Jamesuk - that is probably why they are not widely used. I am interested also in seeing what software is available but if, as others have said, the reef was 3 miles away this can not replace old fashioned means of avoidance, and a bit of luck also... Thanks for all the comments.

Andy

 

[rptb1]

...There is a tendency once you see something in electronic form to take it as gospel, without challenging the underlying data. ...

As a software engineer specialising in software reliability I have the exact opposite feeling. The rush to market information in convenient digital form has led to a lot of corner cutting and transformation of information by people who don't really understand its significance, history, or error handling. Digitized information should be viewed with suspicion, especially if it's telling you you're safe.

 

[Richard10002]

As a software engineer specialising in software reliability I have the exact opposite feeling. The rush to market information in convenient digital form has led to a lot of corner cutting and transformation of information by people who don't really understand its significance, history, or error handling. Digitized information should be viewed with suspicion, especially if it's telling you you're safe.

Hence the warnings every time you turn on a chart plotter or car sat nav.

 

[rptb1]

Hence the warnings every time you turn on a chart plotter or car sat nav.

Yes. The unfortunate thing is that in many cases such warnings are just boilerplate legalese or butt-covering, so people have (rightly) learned to ignore them. Excessive warnings are evil because they make people ignore all warnings.

But plotter makers know they can't make guarantees. Plotters are an aid to navigation. No more.

 

[Frank Holden]

Has no-one thought that Beveridge may have been the destination and that they were standing 'on and off' waiting for daylight?

 

[RichardS]

Has no-one thought that Beveridge may have been the destination and that they were standing 'on and off' waiting for daylight?

Surely if that was the case then they would have mentioned it?

Richard