Bridle / Splice questions

[Yellow Ballad]

Couple of q's in I can...

Firstly what's this splice called? (so I can give it a go)

Second, I want to make up an anchor warp, an anchor bridle snubber and a rope-chain-rope mooring bridle (incase I need to leave the boat for a longer period of time). Jimmy Green says for an anchor warp 14mm Octoplait is fine with 8mm chain (30ft boat), a 14mm octoplait and chain hook for an anchor snubber but for the mooring rope-chain-rope say 14mm octoplait with 8mm chain is suitable upto 6m boats. Going upto 10mm chain and 18mm only goes upto 8m boat length, I would need to go to 12mm chain and 24mm octo to cover me. Is this due to chafe or snatch? I thought about buying an 100m reel of 14mm to make up the anchor and mooring bridle and the rest to make an anchor warp. It just seems a massive jump up in size over an anchor snubbing bridle for a rope-chain-rope bridle.

Lastly, on said anchor snubber and mooring bridle is it wise to have a mooring compensator on each leg or is this just a waste of money or a no no for some reason? (size of boat/forces etc)

Many Thanks in advance.

Tom

 

[Yellow Ballad]

After a bit of googling it looks like its a Brummel splice to me if it's of any interest to others.

http://www.animatedknots.com/brummeldemo/#ScrollPoint

 

[Gwylan]

Couple of q's in I can...

Firstly what's this splice called? (so I can give it a go)

Second, I want to make up an anchor warp, an anchor bridle snubber and a rope-chain-rope mooring bridle (incase I need to leave the boat for a longer period of time). Jimmy Green says for an anchor warp 14mm Octoplait is fine with 8mm chain (30ft boat), a 14mm octoplait and chain hook for an anchor snubber but for the mooring rope-chain-rope say 14mm octoplait with 8mm chain is suitable upto 6m boats. Going upto 10mm chain and 18mm only goes upto 8m boat length, I would need to go to 12mm chain and 24mm octo to cover me. Is this due to chafe or snatch? I thought about buying an 100m reel of 14mm to make up the anchor and mooring bridle and the rest to make an anchor warp. It just seems a massive jump up in size over an anchor snubbing bridle for a rope-chain-rope bridle.

Lastly, on said anchor snubber and mooring bridle is it wise to have a mooring compensator on each leg or is this just a waste of money or a no no for some reason? (size of boat/forces etc)

Many Thanks in advance.

Tom

That's a Brummel [?spelling]

Try contacting Rope Locker , ask for Joe he will sort you out and help you on the splicing.

Me? A satisfied customer and I used to live round the corner from him.

 

[alahol2]

For the mooring strop I would not go less than about 20mm octoplait suitably protected. I wouldn't have thought you need to go to 12mm chain though, I would have thought 8mm was sufficient. It depends how you intend to attach it to the buoy(?) I don't think I'd leave a boat for any length of time with a chain just threaded through a buoy ring.

 

[thinwater]

That splice is ONLY for locking the core against initial slip when combined with a long bury. It is NOT for this purpose and will weaken the line ~ 35-50%. Second, imagine the internal chafe as the load rocks from one leg to the other.


You are better off with 2 legs.

 

[Ian_Edwards]

I have a similar question, I want to make a bridle as a snubber or stretcher for use when at anchor. The Southerly 46RS only has one bow roller, so currently I use the same roller for the snubber and the anchor chain. The snubber is protected by lay flat hose, this method works, but sometimes the rope get caught under the chain.

I'd like to make a bridle up, so I can use the two fairleads and cleats on either side of the bow, but I'm not sure how to "splice" the hard eye into the mid point of the octoplait.

I could stitch it together with a large number of heavy twine stitches through both ropes, and then serve it with a massive whipping. That would be easy to do but I'm not sure it would be strong enough.

I'd also thought of knitting the two ropes together with strands from the octoplait, but this is just a vague idea, I've no idea how to do that in practice.

Is there an accepted best practice for putting a hard eye in the middle of a length of octoplait?

 

[jwilson]

When I last used a rope bridle for moorings (approx 10M boat) I made it from 24mm three-strand nylon middled round a galvanised eye and then very heavily whipped round the eye. The two ends of the bridle had big eye splices, after anti-chafe tubing where it went through fairleads. I reasoned that two separate lines with eyes rubbing together at the buoy end would damage each other, hence a single line middled.

Used that for many few years normally making up a new one every two or three years. After once returning to the mooring and finding one side of a previously sound rope bridle badly chewed and mangled (probably someones' prop) switched to 9.5mm chain as a single mooring strop, renewed every 2 years.

To me Octoplait seems rather soft for the job somehow. I know it's got a good breaking strain and is nice and stretchy. I prefer three-strand for no obvious reason other than it's really easy to eye-splice. However the splice you show in Octoplait just won't work when loads on the two lines alternate.

 

[lw395]

Looks like a single point of catastrprophic failure to me.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

Use two lines with a hard-eye at each end and then shackle the two hard-eyes together onto whatever you want to triangulate. You may have to have manufactured a tie that goes between the bridle shackle and the smaller device you are triangulating as the shackle connecting the hard-eyes could have a large OD.

 

[Yellow Ballad]

Thank you for the replies, it's all if, whats and maybes. In reality all will have little use but like in most of sailing, I want to be prepared.

I saw the splice on Jimmy Green, they show for the anchor snubber I wouldn't have thought they would have shown it if it wasn't suitable https://www.jimmygreen.co.uk/item/77356/custom-8mm-chain-snubbing-bridle

I had thought two seperate legs on a bow shackle, but having one line do the lot made me think less to go wrong and less noise of hard eyes clicking and clanging at night.

So the norm for the anchor bridle... chain hook -- bow shackle -- two seperate hard eye legs 14mm octo with chafe protection and loop splice.

Mooring Bridle (it would only be for visiting places but possibly longer if I ran out of sailing time)

I'd like to make a bridle up, so I can use the two fairleads and cleats on either side of the bow,

this is my though, there's something about a bridle that makes me feel more comfortable. My only concern (with the boat) is the fairleads are tiny, they would take 14mm with flat hose but nothing bigger. I could fit bigger, but the boat has survived 45 years without them.

Really then I should look at a chunky strop over the bow roller with chafe protection, a hard eye and shackle. Shackle the strop to the buoy rather then chain wrapped round.

I'm all ears though...

 

[vyv_cox]

14 mm octoplait is too much for an anchor snubber for your boat. You need some elasticity so that shock loadings, or even those at the end of each yaw are absorbed. I use 12 mm braid on braid nylon for a 34 ft boat. Three-strand stretches more than braid on braid and I suggest this would be fine for you with 30 ft. Octoplait stretches to somewhere between the two, so would probably be OK and has the advantage that it doesn't seem to harden as three-strand does.

 

[Minchsailor]

For my 36ft, 9T long keeler;

Bridle - 1m of 10mm chain (but 1.5m would be better) with 5m of 16mm Anchorplait tails.

Mooring strop - 18mm octoplait, soft eye at boat end, hard eye at buoy end, with BIG SS swivel.

 

[Yellow Ballad]

Thanks, Vyv. I did have a look on your site before posting but couldn't see much on anchor warps or strops/bridles (bar the at anchor page).

I thought 14mm was on the larger side but belt and braces and all, 12mm may be easier for storage.

I notice you just run a strop/snubber rather then bridle, I'm guessing this is so there's no forward forces on the fairlead and chafe? What are you thoughts on a mooring bridle/strop setup?

Don't you just love us eager beaver newbies eith our questions eh...

 

[vyv_cox]

When I kept boats on moorings on Menai Strait, a 27 ft, 29 ft and 34 ft., all were successively on the same exposed mooring in deep water, around 9-10 metres. The pickup chain was 1/2 inch from the buoy, no snubber or bridle, the chain came over the bow roller. There was a certain amount of elasticity in the mooring (at last, he admits to catenary!) which was very heavy chain, 3/4 inch riser and 1.25 inch ground chain on two anchors laid up- and down-tide. No boats had any form of snubber that I am aware of.

At anchor I use a single snubber, usually run over the second bow roller with plastic hose as chafe protection.

 

[thinwater]

Looks like a single point of catastrprophic failure to me.

^^This is the point. Not only that, there is no way a single eye is going to be as strong as 2 legs.

So bring the legs together a a shackle.



That siad, so long is there is no tension on the chain and there is chafe protection, a single line should be fine. Just make 100% certain you lift it to one side before you start the windlass. Getting it under a loaded chain is a good way to ruin it inside, where it is hidden.

 

[Yellow Ballad]

Thank you all for the replies, always good to hear how other people do it.

 

[PaulRainbow]

I want to make up an anchor warp, an anchor bridle snubber and a rope-chain-rope mooring bridle (incase I need to leave the boat for a longer period of time). Jimmy Green says for an anchor warp 14mm Octoplait is fine with 8mm chain (30ft boat), a 14mm octoplait and chain hook for an anchor snubber but for the mooring rope-chain-rope say 14mm octoplait with 8mm chain is suitable upto 6m boats. Going upto 10mm chain and 18mm only goes upto 8m boat length, I would need to go to 12mm chain and 24mm octo to cover me. Is this due to chafe or snatch? I thought about buying an 100m reel of 14mm to make up the anchor and mooring bridle and the rest to make an anchor warp. It just seems a massive jump up in size over an anchor snubbing bridle for a rope-chain-rope bridle.

Speaking as someone with a 10m boat, weighing 9-10t, East Coast UK, rarely anchoring or mooring in tropical storms :

Your anchor rode would be perfectly OK if it was 8mm chain and 14mm 3 strand nylon. The nylon spliced to the chain with a chain splice : http://www.animatedknots.com/chainsplice/#ScrollPoint

I think the best way forward with the bridle/snubber is to use separate lines, I would also use 3 strand nylon here. If you are planning to use this for a snubber under normal anchoring conditions i don't see the need for the bridle, bringing a single line over a spare anchor roller or through one of your fairleads/cleats should be fine. I moor to buoys using 14mm 3 strand nylon and a single line to one bow cleat and it works fine on a 33ft boat in moderate conditions for short stays (during the day).

You could make a snubber up from a length of 3 strand nylon, with a thimble spliced into one end. Shackle this to a chain hook with a bow shackle. If you want/need it to be a bridle just splice a thimble to another length of 3 strand nylon and add it to the shackle.

Lastly, on said anchor snubber and mooring bridle is it wise to have a mooring compensator on each leg or is this just a waste of money or a no no for some reason? (size of boat/forces etc)

Pointless, Tom.