breaking out anchor under sail

[half tonner]

Now that visiting French marinas may be off the radar, I may have to start anchoring my 30 ft boat. I have not anchored single handed for the last 10 years that I have owned this boat . I have only done it 3 times with a crew. I may have to just sail in UK waters & keep isolated. I am over 70 years. I do not have an anchor winch. I have 10 metres of 6mm chain plus 30 M of rope & a 15KG CQR ( I think that is the weight) . I do have 35 M of chain & another identical anchor at home, but I am not sure that I can haul it up on my own.
I sail single handed.
So I need tips for getting the anchor up by hand,
I want to have the sails up when I hoist the anchor, to avoid ropes around the prop, which I almost had when i attempted anchoring once.
How would others go about sailing off the anchor & how would they go about getting it up. I do not have the means to fit a winch.
I do have a chain hook & rope which I can hook to the chain & take back to the cockpit winch, which is something I have been considering once I get to the chain.
But I would still have 10 M of chain to get aboard plus the anchor to stow
I have an electric tiller autopilot
Thanks

 

[johnalison]

I think that CQRs came in pounds, so yours might be 35lb. We used a 25lb CQR on our Sadler 29, with chain and warp. Perhaps getting something like a 10kg Bruce would lighten the work. We have one as a spare and it holds our 5-ton boat well. You could also lighten the load by having just a few metres of heavier chain and using an angel, which is what we had on the Sadler. The angel stopped the line from fouling the keel at turn of tide.

You can lighten the work of raising the anchor by pulling the chain tight and just waiting. With a bit of luck the anchor will free itself.

 

[dom]

Duplicate

 

[dom]

Now that visiting French marinas may be off the radar, I may have to start anchoring my 30 ft boat. I have not anchored single handed for the last 10 years that I have owned this boat . I have only done it 3 times with a crew. I may have to just sail in UK waters & keep isolated. I am over 70 years. I do not have an anchor winch. I have 10 metres of 6mm chain plus 30 M of rope & a 15KG CQR ( I think that is the weight) . I do have 35 M of chain & another identical anchor at home, but I am not sure that I can haul it up on my own.
I sail single handed.
So I need tips for getting the anchor up by hand,
I want to have the sails up when I hoist the anchor, to avoid ropes around the prop, which I almost had when i attempted anchoring once.
How would others go about sailing off the anchor & how would they go about getting it up. I do not have the means to fit a winch.
I do have a chain hook & rope which I can hook to the chain & take back to the cockpit winch, which is something I have been considering once I get to the chain.
But I would still have 10 M of chain to get aboard plus the anchor to stow
I have an electric tiller autopilot
Thanks

Hi half-tonner and welcome to the forum!

Permit me to be frank here; there is something worryingly Wile E. Coyote about your plans.

I worry that you may be putting yourself in much greater danger by pursuing them, then for example holing up at home and following the fast evolving medical and self-distancing advice.

 

[rgarside]

I am just under 70, my 27' boat has 25m of 8mm chain, plus 30m octoplait, no windlass - I anchor a lot, and am usually single-handed. The biggest improvement I made to anchor recovery was moving from a steel anchor to a Fortress, it makes recovering the last bit of chain, and getting the anchor to a safe place much quicker. I have a tiller pilot, but mostly use a knotted rope and hook system to position the tiller while recovering the anchor.

Exactly how to leave an anchorage depends on the wind and tide, I often encounter tide-rode conditions, so hoisting the sails in advance may not be practical. I don't find keeping lines out of the water too much of a problem, so am happy to leave under engine if sailing off is not so easy. Depending on the amount of space available, unfurling the roller genny is a quick way to make some sail and get under way. If there is plenty of space, then there is no rush to get under way.

 

[Babylon]

Breaking out anchor under sail and recovering it can be broken down into two discrete components:

Breaking out under sail:

Assuming some scope (1:3 or 1:4) use a single sail (heads'l or main, unless very little wind in which case use both) and tack towards the anchor, first one way then the other until the anchor breaks free.

Alternatively, shorten scope on a rising tide and wait.

Recovering while under sail:

As soon as anchor is free, haul in as much as you safely can then head out slowly into open water where you can recover the rest at a sustainable pace.

If the weight is too much for you, then consider making up a line the length of your boat with a hook on the end (much like an anchor-snubber) and lead it back to a cockpit or halyard winch - so that you can benefit from the mechanical advantage of the winch (and/or sweat the line up, also a mechanical advantage) to recover the remaining chain in stages.

 

[[163233]]

I recently had to weigh anchor single handed with a 37'er and no windlass in 15-20kn of wind, there was no way I could shift the full 25m of 8mm chain and 16Kg delta. I ended up motoring forward a bit, sticking it in neutral, and hoiking in some chain as the boat dropped back, repeat about 10 times. I used to have a 27'er and did this just hauling the boat up to the anchor, but that was a light boat and I never did it in a strong wind. It was a surprise to me how hard it was, the gusts could easily pull the chain out of my hands.

With mostly rope and only a boat length of chain, I'd run the rope back from the bow to a sheet winch and winch it to the chain from the cockpit. You'd be left with a couple of meters dangling which could be sorted under way. That would probably work under sail, but if everything is in the cockpit and the anchor is on a winch then you should be able to haul the boat up to it without any danger to the prop.

Having read rgarside's response, I realise that I am weak and feeble.

 

[Poignard]

This is one of those situations where a pawl to hold the chain would be very useful.

 

[burgundyben]

I had a 28ft motorboat, 4 tonnes, no windlass or locker on the front, I used to keep the warp and 10mtrs chain and a ali fortress in the cockpit, when needed, I would take the end of the warp forward, make fast on the sampson post, then deploy the whole thing from the cockpit, recovery likewise, I would head to the foredeck, pull up a boat length of warp, carry it back to the cockpit, then recover it all into the boat.

Perhaps some similar approach would allow you to be closer to the halyards/sheets/tiller etc.

 

[Neeves]

I have to question why you are using a 15kg (or its imperial equivalent) CQR on a 30' yacht. We have a 38' cat, weighting at 7t, and use the aluminium equivalents of 15kg steel anchors and our aluminium alloy anchors weight 8kg. Having said that - you use a 15kg CQR - because its there!

There is a school of thought that suggests big anchors - but the proviso is - an anchor as big as you can handle - your 15kg CQR is simply too big (and unnecessarily big)

Re-think the anchor and many of the other issues will become so much easier.

rgarside suggest replacing the CQR with a Fortress, which will work well in sand and mud (but not weed and pebbles) and for a 30' yacht the FX 16, or the size smaller, will be fine. Lewmar have a Fortress clone, which might be cheaper. I'd suggest the Spade aluminium model - but they are a bit pricey. But a small Rocna, Supreme, Spade or a good Scots Knox will all be more dependable than your CQR and you can comfortably downsize to around 10kg (and these anchors will all work in most seabeds).

So re-think the anchor - then address the other issues.

To me your rode, 6mm chain and rope is fine - its the anchor that is the initial problem - and no amount of advice on which sail to use etc is going to make that anchor lighter

I believe Fortress come up for sail on eBay, or whatever, quite regularly.

Jonathan

Edit

And I forgot

Welcome to the forum!

 

[[163233]]

This is one of those situations where a pawl to hold the chain would be very useful.

I would have certainly appreciated one. Looks like you can get tie-on ones quite cheaply, I think I'll try that.

We need to set Neeves on to the MCA, their coding still specs anchor requirements by weight.
That said, the problem I had was the weight of the boat in the wind, the anchor didn't move until I was about 5m away from it.

 

[BurnitBlue]

Here is a story. Lets say it wasn't me it was another guy. Anyway this doddering old fool was anchored in Vlicho Bay when he, my friend, decided to sail over to the cafe on the other side of the bay. As the anchor just cleared bottom a wind came up so he dashed to the cockpit to wnch in the sails. Then happy and full of joy he started to sail across the bay. Not realising that his anchor, which was dredging the bottom, had picked up another anchor and he was towing a boat across the bay. So absorbed by his tell tales he failed to notice it. When he arrived on the other side he started to drop his anchor when the towed boat was about to ram him. He fended off then realised what had happened when he realised there was no one on the other boat.. He thought it best to reanchor the towed boat where he was then sail back to where he started and try to contact the owner.

That done he eventually spied a man rowing around looking for his boat. My friend called him over and told him what had happened. The man was spluttering with rage but despite my friends apology and the offer of a lift back to his boat, the man kept going on about it. Eventually the man rowed a half mile over to his boat still yelling and spitting swear words. My friend remarked to me that it just shows you cannot please some people.

 

[half tonner]

As I already have 2 anchors I am not going to buy another. On another, smaller, boat i had a copy of a danforth & it was next to useless.
perhaps my CQR is not quite 15KG but it is well on the way. It is typical of the ones you see hung over the bow of loads of 30 ft boats & was on the boat when I bought it.
I asked the question because I did read a technique posted by someone about letting the boat tack back & forth, on its own, against the anchor & pulling it up in stages. Unfortunately I forget how it worked. I was hoping someone would know & describe it

 

[half tonner]

Hi half-tonner and welcome to the forum!

Permit me to be frank here; there is something worryingly Wile E. Coyote about your plans.

I worry that you may be putting yourself in much greater danger by pursuing them, then for example holing up at home and following the fast evolving medical and self-distancing advice.

I think that I will be just as safe away from family & any errant visitors, half a mile off shore, than I will at home

 

[laika]

Am I a pessimist or does everyone go to worst case scenario when someone asks a question? So...breaking out an anchor which is seriously dug in / caught / holding you against a gale...In post #6 Babylon referenced tacking up to the anchor: With a crew hauling in when the tension comes off during the tack then securing (repeat as necessary) this is something I've successfully used in the past but I can imagine that would be distinctly more problematic without crew (fortunately I do have a windlass...and crew for that matter)

I do have a chain hook & rope which I can hook to the chain & take back to the cockpit winch, which is something I have been considering once I get to the chain.

If that's an option, then before you get to the chain, a rolling hitch is your friend

 

[LadyInBed]

When you say breaking out under sail, do you not have an engine? Or is it your wish to do it in a seaman like way sans engine?
Or do you mean breaking out the anchor under engine with the sails up?
We in our 70's should use any assistance to hand

 

[dgadee]

Get a Fortress or an electric anchor windlas, would be my two choices. And I'm a goodly bit younger than you.

 

[SaltIre]

When you say breaking out under sail, do you not have an engine? Or is it your wish to do it in a seaman like way sans engine?
Or do you mean breaking out the anchor under engine with the sails up?
We in our 70's should use any assistance to hand

If you read #1 it tells you why he doesn't want to use the engine.
If breaking out under sail I would use the mainsail, sheet in, secure the helm amidships and allow the boat to tack repeatedly - taking in slack on the warp/chain as you go. Eventually you'll break out.
The whole thing obviously depends how much searoom you have, particularly since single-handed.

Edit: A tidal stream would ruin my plan!

 

[Refueler]

First thing surely is to find out if OP can handle what he has.

So on a nice calm day with no-one around, nice wide area ... engine in neutral .... take up anchor and see what happens - if can manage it. Then back to cockpit and motor out ...

So if that works we see if we can modify it a bit ...

Same place and conditions .. but this time take up anchor rode and work way back to cockpit leading rode outside stays etc. of course .. let boat settle so the rode is now holding boat from cockpit area and NOT passing underneath ... now start hauling in steady without straining too hard .... trick is to keep steady pull and not rip your back at it !!

I would not try it under sail single handed unless really necessary ...... and then as another says - keep it to one sail only ... usually foresail .. trouble is even with a sail flapping - its a) dangerous, b) boat will take off downwind like scalded cat !

Better to use engine ... especially that OP has a tiller pilot !! Makes job much easier then.

 

[LadyInBed]

If you read #1 it tells you why he doesn't want to use the engine

I want to have the sails up when I hoist the anchor, to avoid ropes around the prop, which I almost had when i attempted anchoring once.

I didn't read that as wanting to do it just under sail, I took it as a lack of experience lifting an anchor period and having a bad experience once.
I anchor solo most of the time but on all chain with a windlass. I sometimes use the engine if the wind is too strong.
If I were using mixed rode, the way I would go about it if the forces were too much for me to pull from the bow would be to run the rode back along the deck to the cockpit, start pulling in by hand, when the pull gets too hard, put the engine into forward tickover revs and carry on pulling. If I start to over run the rode, kick the engine into neutral and continue pulling until it gets too hard again then repeat the proceedure with the engine. Eventually the chain will become vertical, so with a bit of over run the anchor will break out.
I would never mess around trying to do it solo under sail! But I certainly have my main (and mizzen) up ready to sail away.