Boring old farts (BOF's)....

[david_e]

Boring old farts (BOF\'s)....

......and discrimination at yacht clubs is my gripe today.

Received a newsletter from the club yesterday advising that it was introducing a rule to ban children under the age of 16 from the bar area after 9.30 pm. They also complain that the staff employed by the club do not like clearing up the mess in a room upstairs used by kids. So what you might ask?

Well, as parents who are regulars at the club, we don't recall being canvassed/consulted by any committee member about the behaviour of kids in general or mine specifically (which isn't a problem at all) so I can only deduce that it is the BOF's, whose families have flown the nest, that have decided to do this. I would stress that this is a club and not a pub. My daughter(15) works behind the bar with her pal (15) so no doubt they will be asking them to stop working after 9.30 (suspect not at £3 per hour )
I also see behaviour of some of the more drunken members, this is far worse than any of the kids.

As for cleaning a mess in a room, we are talking about crisp packets and glasses used for drinks. The mess in the bar area is far worse than this and includes cigarettes, food etc all of which is cleared up by staff employed by the club. So what is the difference between cleaning up one room from another? Cleaners are employed by the club to clean up mess etc, it is normal. Kids are no worse than anyone else except that you would expect a room full of responsible adults to leave no mess at all, whereas kids are known to be untidy. The adults need cleaners and so do kids.

Many members with families live aboard at week-ends, the club is an integral part of the marina/harbour lifestyle and as such should be prepared to reflect that.

It's been like this for years so why change now?

Is there an ulterior motive?

Are you one of the BOF's?

Gripe No. 2 can wait for another day but centres around the fact that if you want to race you pay double the membership fees of those who don't. It probably accounts for the fact that not many race but.....another day.

Over and out!

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[longjohnsilver]

Which club? NM

.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Peppermint]

Re: Age old problem

The only way round this sort of thing is to be active in the club commitees yourself.
If there are other family orientated members of a like mind that gives you a power block to call on. Get rid of BOFS.

Daughter works behind bar at age 15. Is that legal?

As to the racing thing. What do you get for your double subs? Is there insurance implications or extra expence incured that causes the charge.

Either way. GET ON THE COMMITEE


<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[david_e]

Re: Age old problem

I am a family man - don't have time for committees! Besides, feel they should be talking to family members if there is a problem, shouldn't need to be on the committe to have a view aired.

Collecting glasses - yes is legal.

The racing - matters not what you get really IMHO, cruising members have a section and pay no more, as do others such as dinghy members. Competing/racing is part of the club scene and has been for years so any costs are part of the overall club costs and should be factored into the membership fees. Insurance hasn't been mentioned.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[david_e]

Re: Which club? NM

Discretion & valour etc, it is the principles that count. Some who know will be able to work it out)

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[vyv_cox]

Re: Boring old farts (BOF\'s)....

Confirms my view that there are more club fallings-out and problems over the bar than any other aspect of yacht club life. My UK club doesn't have one, applies for drinks licence about 6 times per year for special occasions. Bar then manned by volunteers. Far better arrangement.

Otherwise I agree with other posters - get on the committee. In this instance, all you can do is get together the views of other parents and bring it to the attention of a sympathetic ear on the committee. Most clubs struggle to have any young members, so it won't do any harm to point out that kids are the future of the club. But maybe the BOFs don't care - why should they?

If the upstairs room is officially for use by the kids, can they set up a volunteer roster for clearing it up? Probably won't work but it's a gesture.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[dansar]

Re: Boring old farts (BOF\'s)....

Following on from the post, but this relates to pubs/restaurants in Scotland which rely on their main trade from marinas and passing yachties. There is a marina in Scotland which has no bar but the village has. Now I know that there are some wonderful and ancient licensing laws but a few years ago we visited this marina, with the children (11 & 12), and were told by the landlord/owner "No kids allowed in the bar after 2000hrs." Its a shame because the previous owners allowed kids in--even upto closing time. The locals didn't mind and the pub used to do a good trade from all the crews and of course their families. Mum & Dad+ 2 kids means a good trade, and there were several other boats with families in the area for a week or more. Not any more--we now by-pass that marina and take our trade elsewhere--its a shame but the marina is also missing out on its mooring dues and of course we all nearly buy something from the marina and the local shop.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Peppermint]

Re: Your right

you shouldn't have to be on a commitee to get your views aired. Sounds like you do need to be though, in practise. The argument they always use (the BOFS) is nobody said anything and no one turns up to the AGM.

The idea that those other family men who can be bothered will spend more time than they need to canvassing the views of the others is not born out in practise. Is it?

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[arran]

Re: Boring old farts (BOF\'s)....

A bar in a club is providing a service to members and visitors. My observations and experience is that pubs in the high streets and villages are profitable bars in clubs are not. Such businesses are not usually run as commercial operations and are unable to ‘cherry pick’ their customers they have to appeal to a wide group of needs.

Your club bar may be the exception and may be hugely profitable in which case you should begin to enjoy some general improvements like a new play area for kids (unless it’s a franchise operated by one of the BOF’S!).

If the bar is losing money what the hell are they doing turning customers away? If this is about finances the first thing they should consider doing is increasing the prices…

If they break-even then, as you say, why change anything at all?


<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[david_e]

Re: Boring old farts (BOF\'s)....

I would view it not as a falling out but simple politics. The definition of which is "expression of priorities" - here those who have a preference for children not to be around are getting their way thru this route. It is selfish IMHO and reflective of BOF behaviour patterns.

I have been on other committees in the past and devoted much time and energy to them, I would go join but won't unless I can do it well by devoting time to it, at present don't have the time.

The volunteer idea is OK but can't agree as it shouldn't need to a separate issue about kids, it is about not discriminating against them.

The point you make about future members being the young one's today is a good one.

I will be interested to see how they actually enforce it! )

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Rich_F]

In defence of Boring old farts (BOF\'s)....

There seems to be an assumption here that anybody that wants to have a quiet drink in a bar without children rattling round their feet is "wrong" or "bad". I'm happy to categorise them, even as "BOFs", but it's unfair to regard them as wrong.

Some people (myself included) appreciate not having kids around (especially when trying to enjoy leisure time) and actively avoid bars where children are permitted. People like me provide an argument that a bar's trade might improve as a result of excluding kids.

I'm not saying anyone's right or wrong here. I'm happy for bars to allow children. I'm just happier if they make it clear (so that I can avoid them), and happier still if there's a child-free alternative nearby.

Rich (BYF)

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[david_e]

Re: Boring old farts (BOF\'s)....

Good point, the same letter says they are not increasing the bar prices post budget so there must be plenty of cash available.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[david_e]

Re: In defence of Boring old farts (BOF\'s)....

10 out of 10 for owning to being a BYF Rich - takes great courage!!

Hear what you say but excluding children doesn't always guarantee a 'quiet' drink in my experience. The issue is more about "why now?" - if the rules were always there, then they should always have been enforced consistently and fairly. The implication is that there is a problem with the kids- which we don't believe there is.

There aren't that many of them and most of the time they play outside or in the upstairs room when it's cold & wet, after all kids don't want to be around adults all the time but they don't ban us from being near them!



<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[duncan]

Re: name the committee

Club should provide facilities for kids, as part of it's overall committment to membership - but that doesn't mean that all facilities should be available. In your case the upstairs room could remain available but the bar area itself be restricted from the time suggested. Interesetingly I find kids better at using WPBs than adults in public areas - however I struggle to find them in bars and pubs at all! Get one and keep the kids may be the answer!
Licensing laws are often used to hide a management decision - why people can't be more honest in this respect beats me! I have kids (5 between 10 and 19), if we are out without them I would favour somewhere without someone elses and vice-versa. If it's the only pub in a village then I think the sentiment of my first para should be applied!
Finally, in regards to teh committee/club rules - you should write to the secretary asking for the name of the committee members who proposed and seconded this rule change; although in theory that should be shown on the minutes of the meeting which must be posted somewhere in the clubhouse. Then ring them up and discuss a reasonable alternative, asking them to propose it at the next meeting ...........

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[AndrewB]

9 o\'clock limit.

Isn't the legal position that children under 18 are not permitted in licenced premises (including clubs) after 9pm, even if accompanied, without special exemptions? I've seen notices go up in pubs round here recently, maybe there is a crack-down.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[david_e]

Re: 9 o\'clock limit.

Could be but that hasn't been explained or put forward, and are club laws the same as pubs?

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[david_e]

Re: name the committee

Good suggestion/ideas, thanks.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Chris_Robb]

Under age serving???

>My daughter(15) works behind the bar with her pal (15) <

I thought that anyone serving alcohol needed to be over 18.

Bars are always a problem, - The Old Buggers should be made aware that children are the life blood of the club, without them the club will eventually have no members. On the other hand - being a boring old fart myself - I wouldn't want screaming children running around the bar either!!!!

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[l'escargot]

Re: 9 o\'clock limit.

The usual licencing laws don't apply to clubs in the same way as pubs. It's quite a complex area but technically there is no "sale" of alcohol in a members club. Basically, drink is "supplied" and then the member's money is used to replace it. Therefore any member over the age of 5 can actually be supplied with drink (the age of 5 is derived from another law) unless it is specifically prohibited - this prohibition is made when the licence is granted. Consequently the supply of drink for money to a non-member constitutes a "sale" and an offence.
In practical terms hours etc are set when the licence/registration certificate is issued so that clubs operate, broadly speaking, under the same terms as pubs.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[l'escargot]

Re: Your right

Put forward a motion at the next AGM to wthdraw/alter this rule and encourage enough like-minded people to attend to carry the vote.

<hr width=100% size=1>