Boats being hit/damaged in marinas

[wonging]

I have just spent the day after an initial 30 min trip out (cut short due to windy lumpy conditions) tinkering down the boat in the marina and personally witnessed three seperate occasions of novices hitting boats either on departure or arrival and two weeks ago a certain novice with a 21ft power cruiser came in at about 6 knots in windy conditions giving no regard to wind direction and was blown into/across the stern of 5 yachts in fwd, he then realises he has a problem and wont make his berth and reverses back at about 6 knots across the stern of these 5 yachts, foolishly thinking he is know is better positioned he again engages fwd and again scrapes passed the 5 yachts this time catching his dingy and davits on the pushpit which swings him into a vacant berth which wasnt his, he decides to leave the boat in this berth as even he must of thought enough was enough for one day, this kind of situation is becoming all too frequent with the amount of novices buying boats, especially power boats and hitting throttles thinking their driving their cars, im personally tomorrow going to the scrap yard and buying the biggest scrap tyre i can find and going straight down the boat to hang the bloody thing over the bow as it seems only a matter of time before i visit the boat and find half my bow missing, ive spoken in the past to marina management regarding this problem and the replies have been "well accidents do happen when its windy" ive been boating for over 30 years and i now think that its time for a change in the laws to put a stop to this kind of totally unacceptable damaging behaviour against our property!

Does anyone else agree here?

wong

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[BrendanS]

Even the most experienced boater comes to grief on occasion. It's part of boating, as you haven't the hard grip of tyres on road that cars do, where you can predict exactly where the car will go (at low speed anyway) The sooner people come to terms with that, the better.

There are some boaters out there that have little clue, but the same happens with driving. I've been driven into by a white van driver who didn't even look as he pulled out, and my car went of for repairs for several days while I drove around in a hire car. What to do? License car drivers?

<hr width=100% size=1>Me transmitte sursum, caledoni

 

[wonging]

The difference is that experienced boat owners with knowledge of wind/tide affects and correct use of power come to grief at only 0.25 knots in marinas with correct placing of fenders without damage to either vessel, novices dont even realise that wind and tide affects the boats track and most of them only know two throttle positons which are full ahead and full astern which immediately leads them into demolition derby territory, these people are causing thousands of pounds of damage to boats and they either dont realise or they just dont care.

Its not just the power boats either, today i witnessed two yachts coming into their pontoon berth at about 4 knots with a following f6, the first made no attempt to slow the boat down until they was fully along side the pontoon and then we here the clank of forward straight into reverse and the engine screaming its head off with the inevitable crash bang wallop of the bow, the second came in at about the same speed and didnt engage reverse at all, they just flicked out of gear and jumped off with the stern line and then wondered why they was being dragged along on their backside waiting for the again inevitable crash bang wallop of the bow.

The pontoon could easily have been someones pride and joy and they dont give a damn because they dont know any better because they have had no basic training which in my opinion should now be made law!!

wong

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[BrendanS]

Everyone can come up with extreme terms of reference. For everyone that sees an accident in boating, there are 10's of others that happen with cars every hour of every day. Accidents happen, get used to it. It's not only down to incompetence, there are a huge number of other factors involved.

<hr width=100% size=1>Me transmitte sursum, caledoni

 

[MainlySteam]

I got hit by a very experienced power boat skipper coming into the berth beside me a while back - I think there should be a law that puts a stop to that kind of unacceptable behaviour too. Particularly bad that, fancy an experienced skipper hitting me, beyond belief, he should know much better than to do so!

And not just power boats too - got some nice marks on my lifelines from the bowsprit of the yacht beside but across the walkway between us. He got sideways on one day - another very exerienced skipper (used by the armed forces for sail training, even) -unforgivable given his experience.

Clearly we must get some laws against this irresponsible behaviour. Brendan's excuses for bad behaviour are not excusable /forums/images/icons/smile.gif.

John

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[Renegade_Master]

"The difference is that experienced boat owners with knowledge of wind/tide affects and correct use of power come to grief at only 0.25 knots in marinas with correct placing of fenders without damage to either vessel"

Despite Brendans attempts to play down your concerns, this above point you make is most relevent.

The inexperienced / untrained helmsman will tend to use more speed and throttle than necessary, as they tend to panic in such a situation.

Forward assessment of the wind & tide conditions by observing the water the flags etc. Also indeed stopping the boat in an appropriate spot, and seeing what the wind & tide is doing to it before entering the Marina helps.





<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.suncoastmarine.co.uk>Sun Coast Sea School & Charter</A>

 

[Sunnyseeker]

We were informed by the marina that another boat had hit ours, there was some damage, they filed an accident report and gave us the other boats contact details. He apolagised and was happy to pay for the repairs.
Accidents happen...
Other boats should make marina staff aware of collisions so that they can let the victim know who was responsible. There's usually someone who witnesses a bump but how many people make a note of who hit who?
But it will happen, and thats what T cuts for! trouble with yachts is it can almost be worse if they dont touch and someone big is fending off using your stantions to lean on!

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[oldgit]

Re:Eggs in box?

Think that if you squeeze a lot of very fragile plastic into a very confined space,bumps and scrapes are bound to occur.The problems of the marina operator getting the maximun return from the space available and mebbee the less experienced boaters prefering the reassurance of a marina berth will increase the likely hood of the parking by touch syndrome.The tendency to cut costs by fixing the stantions with a couple of cheap bolts with no decent pad moulded into the hull for the purpose,leads to the slightest decent shove cracking the blooming gelcoat and the deck laminations around it.

<hr width=100% size=1>Stupid place to leave an island anyway......

 

[Talbot]

There are circumstances where speed is essential in order to be able to achieve a berthing. If I slow right down, I have no control at all on where my boat goes (single engine, twin rudder, lots above water, nothing under.) There are times when something happens and you get it wrong. But repeating a crash twice seems a bit over the top /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

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[KevB]

"Does anyone else agree here?"

Er, no...../forums/images/icons/crazy.gif

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[Deleted User YDKXO]

Yup, flogging would be far too good for this kind of person. Ban em' I say. In fact ban wind and if that does'nt work, ban marinas and if that does'nt work, I would ban boating altogether. That should fix it

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[wonging]

Experienced skippers rarely do major damage to other boats if they get things wrong because they know that the cardinal rule is to proceed slowly and they have the knowledge and know exactly what affect any wind or tide will have on entry to the berths.

If your happy with your new gleaming pride and joy ending the season with a hull looking like a norfolk broads hire boat due to inexperienced skippers scraping past you every weekend, then i guess you dont realise the cost of hull resprays or the devaluation involved if you come to sell to the boat.

Compulsory basic training is whats needed, you cant go buy a car and drive around the country without having training and passing a test, so why cant this be introduced in the boating industry?

I also think there should be compulsory basic training in the use of marina trolleys, experienced skippers know that once they have finished using the trolley they will be rewarded with their £1 back if they return said trolley to the trolley park, inexperined skippers leave their trolley along side their berth while their out so as they dont have to bother making the trolley trip twice, they have no clue about trolley collision regulations and dont even know that trolleys pass port to port on pontoons, the amount of times ive ended up following my trolley and gear head first into the drink taking avoiding action is disgraceful, ban trollies as well i say, damn dangerous things anyways with all that wobbling and boucing about!

wong

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[boatless]

Mandatory tuition to current syllabus won't really help. The point has already been made re: comparison with car driving tuition/testing.

Mooring boats is almost a subject in itself, and unfortunately needs a huge understanding of all the variables and nuances. There simply is no way to teach that completely, takes practise in all conditions.

Take you new car to the supermarket car park - how many times before it gets a door opened on it - my best is about a month, worst three days. Some people will never ever learn to park a car or boat successfully. Should the driving test involve car parks? Probably.

I do agree that any dealer/broker misses an excellent chance to improve the level of competence - and brand loyalty, but I have a lot of personal experience that says that some people will refuse help.

<hr width=100% size=1>my opinion is complete rubbish, probably.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Because compulsory training does'nt work. There's plenty of evidence of that if you go across to France where I would say that the standard of boat handling is worse than the UK despite the fact that they've all gone through compulsory training. You only have to drive on the UK's roads to see the level of incompetence that results from compulsory training
The problem with compulsory training is that people see it as a necessary evil rather than a desirable course of action. It is much better to educate new boaters to want to improve their skills than to force them to do so and, in this respect, I think the RYA is doing a very good job although, maybe there are one or two dealers who dont do enough to encourage their customers to get trained up
Having said this, there will always be a few people who simply wont be told or who cant do it very well. Thats life, I'm afraid
Also, perhaps you as a competent boat owner should be thinking about how vulnerable your boat is in its mooring? A few judiciously positioned fenders and maybe you could sleep better at night?

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[Jinks]

Have as much training as you like, only experience is going to give you a chance. I'm very new to boating and did Power Boat 1&2 before taking my new boat out. This was obviously very useful, particularly with regard to slow speed manouvering. Two weeks ago, booked extra training regarding trimming and handling. Spent all day Saturday with a (I thought) good instructor and went out Sunday to enjoy my new found expertise. Into the lock, beam on to the wind, very pretty 180 degree spin within the lock and a bent anchor cover. Fortunately only one other boat in there and he was able to fend me off so no damage to anyone else. The bottom line is that even with three full days training, I had no idea how to deal with the situation I was in.

As far as I was concerned, training was compulsory; unfortunatley it doesn't prepare you for everything.

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[LittleShip]

I was once told that there is only two difficult things about sailing

1. Letting go of the land
2. Getting back hold of it


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[wonging]

To make a statement saying compulsory basic training doesnt work is in my opinion a ludicrious, with training comes experience, its why people have driving lessons isnt it?

A one or two day course is totally inadequate, it needs to be far longer!

wong

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[KevB]

How many days training did you have before you took full control of the helm?

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[Deleted User YDKXO]

No, experience does not come with training, experience only comes with practice and people dont have driving lessons to amass experience or to improve their driving skills, they have driving lessons to enable them to pass a highly artificial driving test, pure and simple
I agree that a 1 or 2 day course is insufficient; you are the one arguing for it!! You have to educate and encourage people to go on from basic training to higher levels of competence

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[mickshep]

"I do agree that any dealer/broker misses an excellent chance to improve the level of competence"

Interesting thought and one that the new broker at H/Pool Marina has taken on board. Every boat on their books has 2 prices, 1st is the bare boat package, the 2nd is an 'all in' package that includes tuition aboard their new boat, They seem to be selling a lot of boats at the moment so must be doing something right. Mike.

<hr width=100% size=1>My Mum say's I'm not a fat b@st@rd, just heavy boned.