Boating During Lockdown?

[RJJ]

Sadly these threads bring back memories of those back in March where we couldn't possibly go to our boats in case the world as we know it ended

And those dreadful songs from YouTube

Fortunately we are not (yet) debating whether somehow driving to the boat, doing some maintenance, or going for a jaunt with your other half, results in infecting the person you walked past fleetingly on the jetty. Although it's not too late for someone to pipe up...

I think we are debating whether the letter of the law requires us not to do it, and whether therefore we get ourselves in trouble with the rozzers. I am sympathetic to the "bad press" argument, however since I managed to hold back from ill-judgment of those who went to the beaches in April, I will be governed by the law of the land rather than the tabloids. Which seems to allow us to go sailing.

My boat is an hour away. I will go down as often as minimally necessary to ensure winter protection. Probably once a month, perhaps more. If I then fancy a sail, I will have one. I probably will abide by the "no overnight" thing which is regrettably unambiguous.

 

[Graham376]

For boats based in Wales, here is the law (not a recommendation) -

Until Monday 9 November at 12:01am, travel in Wales without a reasonable excuse is an offence. Travelling into, out of or within Wales to visit, check or inspect a holiday home or stay in a second home is not a reasonable excuse. The same rules apply to caravans, boats and other temporary accommodation.

If you break these new laws:

• You may be told to go home or removed from where you are and returned home.
• You could have to pay a fixed penalty notice of £60. This will rise to £120 for the second breach,
• Or you could have criminal proceedings brought against you, and if found guilty, you will have to pay a fine.

 

[FlyingGoose]

For boats based in Wales, here is the law (not a recommendation) -

Until Monday 9 November at 12:01am, travel in Wales without a reasonable excuse is an offence. Travelling into, out of or within Wales to visit, check or inspect a holiday home or stay in a second home is not a reasonable excuse. The same rules apply to caravans, boats and other temporary accommodation.

If you break these new laws:

• You may be told to go home or removed from where you are and returned home.
• You could have to pay a fixed penalty notice of £60. This will rise to £120 for the second breach,
• Or you could have criminal proceedings brought against you, and if found guilty, you will have to pay a fine.

Now there is a sensible , clear, understanding of the law , shame England can not get it right

 

[Daydream believer]

Well I sort of saw this coming, as did one or two others I spoke to. So we had our boats placed on the marina hard, Fully winterised for the winter.
My boat is 4.4 miles from my home, but it is safe, Everything removed & placed in storage & I do not need to go near it until next season except perhaps to reconnect & charge the batteries in a couple of months time. My launch & my dinghy are safely stored at my yacht club 300 yds away.
I see no reason to try & find ways to get round the govts request to stay at home , apart from visiting the doctor for my prescription & my weekly shop.
I do not expect to go & see my grandson, he will get along perfectly well without me. (Although not applicable to me, I do not see the point of going to a birthday party for a one year old who will not have the slightest idea of what was going on.) I will not feel the need to "Hug" my son or daughter who live 30 miles away. A watts app joke now & then on the Iphone will do perfectly well.
If they have a problem a telephone call will suffice.
Not really that hard is it?

 

[alahol2]

Now there is a sensible , clear, understanding of the law , shame England can not get it right

Maybe England has got it right...
I am VERY happy not to have to live under Welsh law.

 

[Lucky Duck]

Maybe England has got it right...
I am VERY happy not to have to live under Welsh law.

The rules in post #42 seem to be reflect a political dogma as much as anything else.

As, for example, a Laser doesn't have any accommodation it would be allowable to check on that.

 

[Pete7]

Given the amount of weed growing on the yachts hull, visiting my floating allotment sounds reasonable to me

On a more serious note and having just read the Gov website, I am very doubtful we will be allowed to visit a yacht, but do have a read of the proposed rules to make your own mind up:

New National Restrictions from 5 November

 

[Graham_Wright]

For boats based in Wales, here is the law (not a recommendation) -

Until Monday 9 November at 12:01am, travel in Wales without a reasonable excuse is an offence. Travelling into, out of or within Wales to visit, check or inspect a holiday home or stay in a second home is not a reasonable excuse. The same rules apply to caravans, boats and other temporary accommodation.

If you break these new laws:

• You may be told to go home or removed from where you are and returned home.
• You could have to pay a fixed penalty notice of £60. This will rise to £120 for the second breach,
• Or you could have criminal proceedings brought against you, and if found guilty, you will have to pay a fine.

Er No!

There was express permission to visit a "holiday home, caravan/boat with the need to prepare for winter".

I believe I posted that some time ago. I'll try to find the source again. It applied particularly to the Vale of Glamorgan.

EDIT;- I've just rechecked and the advice has changed as stated. However, the circuit braker finishes next Monday so it appears you can return to normal (at the moment).

 

[FlyingGoose]

Er No!

There was express permission to visit a "holiday home, caravan/boat with the need to prepare for winter".

I believe I posted that some time ago. I'll try to find the source again. It applied particularly to the Vale of Glamorgan.

Another sensible welsh rule, I worry for England and the inept way your government run the country without clarity and focus
It would make me nervous living there

 

[Stork_III]

For boats based in Wales, here is the law (not a recommendation) -

Until Monday 9 November at 12:01am, travel in Wales without a reasonable excuse is an offence. Travelling into, out of or within Wales to visit, check or inspect a holiday home or stay in a second home is not a reasonable excuse. The same rules apply to caravans, boats and other temporary accommodation.

If you break these new laws:

• You may be told to go home or removed from where you are and returned home.
• You could have to pay a fixed penalty notice of £60. This will rise to £120 for the second breach,
• Or you could have criminal proceedings brought against you, and if found guilty, you will have to pay a fine.

An interpretation of the Law, not written into the enacted Regulations. Sensible none the less.

 

[Hallberg-Rassy]

Does anyone want to skillshare? I'll work on your boat, if you'll work on mine?

Or, even better, I'll swop you my boat for yours, for the duration of the lockout, if you commission me to do some work on it that requires me to stay over.

I have to say I find this all very frustrating and I am most disappointed with the RYA not fighting for our corner. If anything, they're even less enlightened than the government. Other associations did fight for their members rights to allow common sense to prevail.

Boats are not the same as caravans.

It's as if no one can keep the purpose of the law in their minds, and wrestles with the abstract, incomplete, contradictory words of the law instead; and we all have to suffer equally because of the idiots; the beach goers, students have covid parties, the illegal ravers, government advisors traveling while infected.

I would see a marina as more of a storage facility.

I agree. It's something being an open field, and a garage workshop.

I accept the need for precautions but I can't see the risk in sitting by myself yards from anyone else, or 100s or yards/1m out to sea, especially when I'm not "bubble hopping", sending kids out to swim in scholastic viral pools, or letting 5 of them run amok in supermarkets.

As usual the Prime Minister does not do detail. The changes need to go before the House of Commons on Wednesday and we might get some clarity then.

Unforunately, I do not believe so. It's not in either Boris's or the Party's/(civil service's?) nature. What they are doing is deliberately making it vague so as to avoid being held responsible or sued. Any query ultimately ends up in "it's for the courts to decide", when there's no time to bring such a case, should someone be rich and foolish enough to do so.

 

[Hallberg-Rassy]

BTW, I don't have one but why is it forbidden to stay at a second home, or chose your second home as your one appointed abode?

Again, except for a miniscule risk of having an accident, if you don't actually have any contact with anyone, not even local shops, then where is the risk?

The risk is in sharing close quarters, therefore shouldn't the guidelines just be "don't share close quarters" (in plain English).

Personally, I, and I guess many of you, would be in far less "close quarters" if I was with or on my boat. It's a joke in comparison to what I see going on, unchecked, in the city.

And, what is the magical difference between working for myself if I choose so, or working for someone else?

By the letter of the law, it appears that if I transfered ownership of my boat to a limited company, it would be legal for me to pay myself £1 to work on it, and stay over.

How are horse owners or allotment keepers coping?

 

[Blue Sunray]

BTW, I don't have one but why is it forbidden to stay at a second home, or chose your second home as your one appointed abode?

I think the reasoning is that NHS capacity is not sized to cope with the second home population in areas such as the West Country should there be an exodus to such homes en mass as appears to have been the case in, for instance, France.

 

[RJJ]

BTW, I don't have one but why is it forbidden to stay at a second home, or chose your second home as your one appointed abode?

I think the whole show is BS but in theory it's a crude way to (1) reduce mingling between different regions (2) reduce travelling which entails petrol stops, small risk of accidents and consequent mingling.

Actually, I think it's a load of tosh. What's really happening is that we have to be all "seen to be in it together" and "the rich" with second homes and yachts can't be seen having a relatively happy life. It doesn't make life an iota better for those poor souls stuck in council blocks that people with other options get cooped up too; the avoidance of envy is the main thing.

There's also an argument that it preserves healthcare in less-populous regions for those that actually have to live there. I have more sympathy with that train of thought but only if actual data at the local/regional level supports it.

 

[atol]

an interesting video investigating what happens if we all go and visit our boats whilst everybody else is staying home as much as possible

 

[Lucky Duck]

an interesting video investigating what happens if we all go and visit our boats whilst everybody else is staying home as much as possible

Oh dear

 

[RJJ]

It

an interesting video investigating what happens if we all go and visit our boats whilst everybody else is staying home as much as possible

It's a very good demo of how an SIR model works. Interesting. It's not that difficult. I could build one.

It doesn't tell us anything about the actual assumptions that we should apply. "Go and visit our boats" specifically is not covered. Those of us figuring we can go visit our boats are indicating we do so without contact or proximity with anyone.

Also, if there is any contact, it doesn't provide a framework to set it in context. What if we go to our boats when everyone else stays home ? Vs what if supermarkets and hospitals are open and people are going to work?

Also, if you watch right to the end, you'll see it finally mentioned that many of the interventions do not reduce the overall number of deaths. They flatten the curve, they don't reduce its size.

 

[Never Grumble]

I'm always surprised by the irrational vehemence of the lockdown fanatics. What possible danger could I present if I decide to drive to my boat and spend the day on it? It's exercise. I'd go on my own. I'm not using public transport. Nobody else is going to be anywhere near me when I'm on my boat. What's the problem? I'll be going next week.

No danger at all. Unlike the village football team plus hangers on all sat round a single table clearly ignoring the rule of 6 yesterday. Fed up of following these rules when no one else seems to. And an old duffer on his boat like me is going to have no impact on the R rate. Locked in so if I cant use the marina facilities can always use a pee bottle.

 

[atol]

It
It's a very good demo of how an SIR model works. Interesting. It's not that difficult. I could build one.

It doesn't tell us anything about the actual assumptions that we should apply. "Go and visit our boats" specifically is not covered. Those of us figuring we can go visit our boats are indicating we do so without contact or proximity with anyone.

Also, if there is any contact, it doesn't provide a framework to set it in context. What if we go to our boats when everyone else stays home ? Vs what if supermarkets and hospitals are open and people are going to work?

Also, if you watch right to the end, you'll see it finally mentioned that many of the interventions do not reduce the overall number of deaths. They flatten the curve, they don't reduce its size.

i have friends in Austria and belguim who are reporting that their hospitals are now full,and that the doctors are having to choose who to treat.
As you will have seen in the video minor changes in mitigation to reduce R have a very large effect on exponential growth numbers.

As responsible members of the sailing and boating community surely any thing we can do to reduce R and slow the spread so we can hopefully avoid the scenario where doctors are forced to choose is a prudent and good thing to do,at least untill the spring sailing season starts when hopefully seasonal variation will reduce infection rates.

 

[Lucky Duck]

i have friends in Austria and belguim who are reporting that their hospitals are now full,and that the doctors are having to choose who to treat.
As you will have seen in the video minor changes in mitigation to reduce R have a very large effect on exponential growth numbers.

As responsible members of the sailing and boating community surely any thing we can do to reduce R and slow the spread so we can hopefully avoid the scenario where doctors are forced to choose is a prudent and good thing to do,at least untill the spring sailing season starts when hopefully seasonal variation will reduce infection rates.

Are you advocating the sailing community remains at home and does take up the Government's invitation to go outside for exercise and recreation and if not have you considered that the risk of transmission in other forms of exercise might be the same or greater?