Boat value and old boat recycling

[Daydream believer]

I disagree. Buy the boat for £5k. Then you spend:-

£5k on new sails
£2k on new rigging
£5k on a new engine
£2k on new cushions
£2k on new instrument.

So in total you've spent £21k in total.

For not much more, you can have a 90s/2000s 30 footer with a double aft cabin and hot water.

You forgot to add the cost of re varnishing any woodwork. The outdated heads. The sea cock replacement. The keel bolts. Running rigging. Plus the time & delay to sailing whilst preparing all this for sea.
2 K on instruments is light. Esp if one wants autopilot & a proper chart plotter with AIS.

 

[doug748]

Those lists of "what you have to spend" are bonkers and always will be, every time they get exhumed.

There are lots of smaller boats around for well under 10k that probably need little or nothing spending on them. Here is one:

Yacht, sail boat, sailing - 26ft Seawolf 26 | eBay

Buy the best boat you can in budget, get on it, sail it.

.

 

[Stemar]

I can't afford a new boat, nor can I afford all the costs Bobc mentions all at once, but what makes it doable is the ability to do the work bit by bit. New rigging last year, serious engine work that should give me many more years this. Madame made new cushion covers from remaindered material, and so it goes on. We've a few more projects that will make the boat more comfortable and safer. Are they worth the cost? In terms of added value, almost certainly not, like the cockpit tent we put on our old Snapdragon that cost 1/4 of the value of the boat, but was it worth it for us? In terms of added comfort and usability, it absolutely was.

Unless you're teaching or chartering, owning a boat is never going to make financial sense, but in the improvement of our lives, the friendships we've made and the pleasure boating has given us, it's worth every penny - and it's way cheaper than a second home that we'd use far less 'cos it's always in the same place.

 

[Bodach na mara]

When I took up sailing in my late teens a common size for a family cruising boat was in the range 24 to 27 feet. There were lots of converted lifeboats around the moorings and plenty of old 30 to 40 year old cruisers. There were also quite a few Folkboats an various other new boats built in plywood, along with som relatively new carvel built wooden boats. There were about 6 glassfibre boats. A large boat was over 30 feet and anything over 40 feet was regarded as bloody enormous! Many of us were hooked into sailing by reading the books of Maurice Griffiths such as Magic of the Swatchways.

After owning two dinghies, I ventured into keelboat sailing when I shelled out £130 to buy a 55 year old former 6-metre boat that was 32 feet LOA. It was all I could afford. And I had great fun doing it up, scrounging sails, getting new upholstery from a ship breakers. Getting my hands on an 55 year old Centaur would have been wonderful as the hull would be sound compared to the hull of my 6 and other bits would also be in better shape.

There must still be people who are skint and would like to sail but will never be able to afford a new 46 foot Benauvaria. As someone who will soon need to downsize, I will obviously not be looking at new boats.

 

[Praxinoscope]

I disagree. Buy the boat for £5k. Then you spend:-

£5k on new sails
£2k on new rigging
£5k on a new engine
£2k on new cushions
£2k on new instrument.

So in total you've spent £21k in total.

For not much more, you can have a 90s/2000s 30 footer with a double aft cabin and hot water.

Not if you buy carefully, the Sadler pictured has 2 year old standing rigging, 3 year old sails, cushions recovered 5 years previously, no need for new instruments, as they all worked and I really don't see the need to have the 'latest' gizmo, the engine (Beta 14 has only (900hrs on it so no need to replace).
The only major things I replaced were Houdini hatch, £350, 2x No 16 Lewmar winches (very good condition used £200 the pair, replacing old Gibbs RA winches which were in good condition, but prefer kit that I can get spares for, and which sold for £150 the pair ) all running rigging about £200, odd bits of rewiring and some new feature woodwork down below about £150 and replacement of 2 x skin fittings with 'tru-design' £35.
Everthing else spent on her has been simply yearly maintenance, so for the £8k purchase price, plus less than £1k I have an excellent 25' boat which suits me and has several potential buyers ready to make an offer as and when I sell.
I don't want a 30' I can't afford the extra annual mooring fees, or the additional maintenance costs of a larger boat (more antifoul etc.) and that at 25' she is easy to sail, and race single handed and bring back on her mooring single handed as well as being one of the 'prettiest boats' in the harbour.

 

[Daydream believer]

Those lists of "what you have to spend" are bonkers and always will be, every time they get exhumed.

There are lots of smaller boats around for well under 10k that probably need little or nothing spending on them. Here is one:

Yacht, sail boat, sailing - 26ft Seawolf 26 | eBay

Buy the best boat you can in budget, get on it, sail it.

.

That could need a new engine. Note- well used boat, yet engine not serviced for 2 years. Looks in a state. Cushions re covered but 2 different colours. Could do with a few more pics. galley etc.
Gearbox stripped then 2 years later cutlass bearing. Seems odd it was not done at the same time. Ongoing issue???

 

[Tranona]

I disagree. Buy the boat for £5k. Then you spend:-

£5k on new sails
£2k on new rigging
£5k on a new engine
£2k on new cushions
£2k on new instrument.

So in total you've spent £21k in total.

For not much more, you can have a 90s/2000s 30 footer with a double aft cabin and hot water.

If you are buying in that sector of the market you would not touch a boat that needed all of those things, but a boat like the one in post#22 where most of those things don't need to be done before you can use it. You then just carry on like the previous owners and replace things as necessary and upgrade if the budget allows. If you look at the list of work and replacements roughly £1k a year over the last 6 years. There are many boats like that around which are unfashionable but usable at under £10k.

 

[Praxinoscope]

Further from #25 the photo's attached show the revised/additional woodwork added below.

1.) The Chart locker is to hold Admiralty Folio charts and copies of local pilots.
2.) Revised Navigation area to suit the way I like to work
3.) Cutlery drawer and cool box installed under cooker and to side of cooker.
Total cost excluding my time about 100 quid.

 

[PeterV]

Interesting to see how this is going. There’s the expected arguments that it’s not worth doing and the opposite view by those who are having fun with an updated older boat on a low budget.
My own position is 29’ Westerly bought for £5000, with a new engine already fitted (bills for £8000)
I’ve since replaced the standing and running rigging, fitted a new furler and bought new sails, cover and spray hood.
All the instruments were original so I’ve replaced them all with modern equipment including a chart plotter. The gas system has been replaced totally and the seacocks serviced with a couple replaced.
I’ve replaced all the headlinings, fitted new windows and forehatch. Total cost for all of this so far - £10k on top of the purchase price. I reckon that’s a good deal. It isn’t a modern boat and I’m not pretending it is. I haven’t got hot water, a shower or heating, although there’s room to add all of this if I wanted to. But the boat is solid, smart, sails really well and could easily last another 45 years if maintained and updated in the future. On the other hand it could have been broken up as an out of date, unpopular manky old boat.

 

[B27]

You forgot to add the cost of re varnishing any woodwork. The outdated heads. The sea cock replacement. The keel bolts. Running rigging. Plus the time & delay to sailing whilst preparing all this for sea.
2 K on instruments is light. Esp if one wants autopilot & a proper chart plotter with AIS.

I think a lot more people can find £20k or £30k to spend as a one-off, than can afford the yearly outlay to run a boat or the time to do the maintenance and go sailing.
Loads of people buy camper vans, they are crazy money you could buy a nice boat for that and it will last longer.
But owning your own boat needs yearly cash for moorings and maintenance.
Plus a lot of time unless you're really throwing money around.
Then the average employee with 25 days annual leave is not well placed to go sailing if they want to pick their weather. It's no coincidence that many boat owners are either retired or self employed.
If you are going to spend several grand a year on running costs, in many cases you might get better value from it by putting in more capital and having a boat you can use more.

Some people like renovating or restoring or even plain 'mending' things as a hobby.
A yacht is a bad choice for that at it's usually costing a lot of money in storage from Day One.

 

[Praxinoscope]

B27 #30, And a hell of a lot of people can't spend £20-30k on a yacht, or maybe can if they borrow the money, but I prefer to buy a boat that I can pay cash for, and if necessary spend a couple of £k over a year or two to do the mods.
It means I can afford to maintain it, pay the mooring/insurance etc. and enjoy sailing a boat that doesn't owe me anything and is not living on borrowed money.

 

[Daydream believer]

A boat on HP must be a really risky thing.
But it seems that a few do still do it.

 

[Supertramp]

Further from #25 the photo's attached show the revised/additional woodwork added below.

1.) The Chart locker is to hold Admiralty Folio charts and copies of local pilots.
2.) Revised Navigation area to suit the way I like to work
3.) Cutlery drawer and cool box installed under cooker and to side of cooker.
Total cost excluding my time about 100 quid.

View attachment 164934
View attachment 164935
View attachment 164936

That's just the sort of modifications I make in light of experience. I have made teak cleats, book shelves, things to stop book shelves flying around in traumatic seas, wood fittings to allow visual access to hidden fittings. Next up is a teak holder for my on deck tablet, phone and radio and cup holders (!) and some more cleats for the toerail.

I think this more about what sort of boat owner you are. I can see the appeal of new boats and designs but I would be less inclined to add, modify and drill holes in a new boat. However you do need to keep on top of replacement and be prepared for those really awkward or expensive unexpected things that fail after decades.

A new 35ft pilothouse yacht would cost more than my house and 3 or 4 times what I paid for the boat plus initial repairs. If I had the money I might do it differently but there is real satisfaction in a boat you know in detail and have adapted to suit your sailing style.

 

[B27]

A boat on HP must be a really risky thing.
But it seems that a few do still do it.

I've heard that people even buy cars on HP and they don't tend to last 30 years.

Quite a few people have boats in the med, there is an element of finance, the boat is chartered out to cover that.
Loads of people could buy yachts, but choose to pay off their mortgage, go on expensive holidays, have some other expensive hobby, save hard to retire early.

I think there are less people buying boats because there are less people driven to buy the best boat they can.
A lot of my dinghy racing friends have more money than I do, but absolutely no urge to own a yacht.

 

[DoubleEnder]

B27 #30, And a hell of a lot of people can't spend £20-30k on a yacht, or maybe can if they borrow the money, but I prefer to buy a boat that I can pay cash for, and if necessary spend a couple of £k over a year or two to do the mods.
It means I can afford to maintain it, pay the mooring/insurance etc. and enjoy sailing a boat that doesn't owe me anything and is not living on borrowed money.

agreed. Out of curiosity can you say where you moor your Sadler ( she looks great)? Moorings are expensive and I think this is the main deterrent to boat ownership at the cheaper end of the market.
I sold my boat a couple of years ago but I’m now really missing it. I am fairly modest in my ambitions, and I’m actually thinking of trying one of the boat sharing schemes where you have known, fixed outgoings and no liability for insurance, mooring, maintenance, anti fouling….. but also no pride and pleasure of ownership.

 

[Praxinoscope]

gdallas, Muntjak is moored in Aberaeron, not the best of harbours, it's drying, open to North Westerlies and the Council who run it are money grabbing and do nothing for it, but it's only a mile down the road for me.
Cheeper moorings can be found depending upon where you are based and are happy with a drying, swinging or trot type mooring.

 

[Daydream believer]

I think there are less people buying boats because there are less people driven to buy the best boat they can.

Have you seen what the waiting list is for a new boat these days?

 

[B27]

Have you seen what the waiting list is for a new boat these days?

No, but is that the same as a lot of boats being sold to private owners in the UK?
I don't think we have registration data like we do for cars, but I don't think new boat sales have been all that healthy over the past 10 years or so compared to 25 years ago.
Most of the boat builders will be selling internationally and the UK may be a tiny part of their waiting lists.

I can't say I've seen large numbers of very new looking boats around the West Country this Summer.
And a lot of the shinier ones are not flying our flag.
Equally I suppose brits may be buying lots of new boats and basing them in the med etc.

 

[Kettlewell]

I've purchased and used eight different old cruising sailboats and fixed them up for my purposes and resold them over the course of the last 40 years or so. My current Finnsailer is of 1978 vintage. A huge proportion of the cost estimates people throw out are for all sorts of modern doodads that didn't exist in 1978 and frankly aren't necessary or desired by some of us. Most people listing these astronomical costs for restoring old boats start with electronics, electrical systems, refirgeration, watermakers, electric windlasses, etc. that weren't available in 1978 and not needed apparently back then. Back in the 1980s I would have been ecstatic to find the bargains in small older boats that one can find today. Just keep them simple, do the work yourself, and ignore most of the ads in the magazines and online.

 

[B27]

Apart from recurrent things like moorings and insurance my big spends so far have been £200 for a fridge, about £100 on a solar panel and wiring etc to suit, a couple of hundred on lifejackets and other kit, £70 on charts, £200 on a used propellor, £150 on a VHF. a secondhand spinnaker, replaced the chinaspacher heater. Probably a few other purchases, but all dwarfed by mooring and winter storage costs.
It is possible to find a modest priced boat which is ready to sail and just get on with it.
Other boats I looked at did need significant money spent, to get to a similar standard.
Tired old engines and sordid upholstery/interiors from rain leaks, age and neglect being common problems. Many boats are long overdue new standing rigging and have very tired running rigging. There's a lot of 2000's era electronics on smaller boats which is now playing up or plain broken. There's a lot of 35 year old boats with 20 year old sails which you couldn't expect to take you very far.


It's quite easy to find e.g. a £9k boat which needs £6k spent on it to be as good as a £12k boat.

I think it helps to have a view of how long you might keep the boat and the total cost over that time. Sometimes it's as well to crack on with upgrades and enjoy them ASAP, not soldier delaying buying stuff for a couple of years.