Boat owning problems

[bendyone]

Just over €1000 in Calais including Elec and Water. 9.5m berth.

 

[Sybarite]

The OP failed to mention that the French mass produced boat builders have been massively subsidised by the French govt over many years which has given them a massive advantage in the market place. .

I have heard this many times but I am curious to know what subsidies have been given - especially as they are out-lawed under EU rules. Perhaps you could enlighten me?

 

[E39mad]

I have heard this many times but I am curious to know what subsidies have beeen - especially as they are out-lawed under EU rules. Perhaps you could enlighten me?

Government subsidies to build factories and low interest govt revolving loans to promote export in the 1980's made them the power house of the yachting industry. Not sure about these days but when have the French ever agreed to any EU directive if it does not suit them.

 

[grumpy_o_g]

For the mobo, which is what I take the family out on, all tide access is all important. Very difficult to be on time for anything with 3 * 5 year old girls!

My Sun 2000 is on a drying mooring for about £380 with tender storage, so don't think I can save much more there and be in the Solent.

5 years old?? I would have sworn it was only a couple of years ago you were searching for solutions to going sailing with triplets.

 

[rwoofer]

5 years old?? I would have sworn it was only a couple of years ago you were searching for solutions to going sailing with triplets.

Just finished reception year at school. Time flies!

 

[JumbleDuck]

One of the problems with selling boats is that you need to be able to keep them somewhere at a reasonable cost....

The next significant difference is in relation to the conception of boats. Early on it was determined in France that the charter market would dominate boat design requirements.

Are these not opposite requirements? If boating is to be done by chartering, why the need for affordable private berths? Even the most expensive marina in the UK is fairly negligible when spread out over 40+ weeks of chartering.

As examples of all of the above, I pay (for up to 9m49) about €1750 pa for my marina mooring in a superb location. This includes free electricity, water, wifi, showers, as well as free access to about 50 other ports which participate in the Passe Morbihan (2 free nights per port).

As others have pointed out, you are comparing the cheapest (northern) part of France with, implicitly, the dearest (southern) part of Britain. Your 9m49 would cost £2370.00 in Hartlepool, £1762.77 in Preston, £759.20 in Stranraer and £2127.66 in Carrickfergus.

 

[Sybarite]

Are these not opposite requirements? If boating is to be done by chartering, why the need for affordable private berths? Even the most expensive marina in the UK is fairly negligible when spread out over 40+ weeks of chartering.

Why are they opposite? Higher costs will be passed on. I never said that chartering was the only way; I said that chartering was probably a big influence in the early days on the conception of boats.

As others have pointed out, you are comparing the cheapest (northern) part of France with, implicitly, the dearest (southern) part of Britain. Your 9m49 would cost £2370.00 in Hartlepool, £1762.77 in Preston, £759.20 in Stranraer and £2127.66 in Carrickfergus.

There is great variation from port to port. I said earlier that moving from Kernevel to Locmiquélic a distance of about a mile led to about a 40% reduction in charges at the time. Yes I am comparing the Brittany with the S. coast of England. That's why I said I would probably not own a boat if I lived there. Also, converting your pound figures into euros and adding on all the charges that we have the luck to have included in our annual charge augments the differentials. Some S. Brittany/Atlantic charges may well be close to Med type prices eg La Trinité / La Rochelle.

The authorities have done extensive studies on the subject eg : http://halshs.archives-ouvertes.fr/...EIL_DES_NAVIRES_DE_PLAISANCE_ET_GIZC_2011.pdf

 

[JumbleDuck]

Why are they opposite? Higher costs will be passed on. I never said that chartering was the only way; I said that chartering was probably a big influence in the early days on the conception of boats.

You seem to be saying that French yacht design is all about chartering, and that French yacht facilities are all about private ownership. Some contradiction there.

There is great variation from port to port. I said earlier that moving from Kernevel to Locmiquélic a distance of about a mile led to about a 40% reduction in charges at the time.

And the same goes for the UK.

 

[Sybarite]

You seem to be saying that French yacht design is all about chartering, and that French yacht facilities are all about private ownership. Some contradiction there.
F.

I think you need to read again what I actually said.

 

[Sailfree]

I think you are all correct in having a go at Sybarite.

He lives in France and enjoys cheap berthing cause the local councils etc encourage marina building and hence low marina costs and the government encourage all businesses including boatbuilding - this is cleartly wrong as yachting should be restricted - if necessary by cost- so that only the right sort of people can go sailing.

Next you will be complaining about the French refusing to let their car industry go under instead of correctly selling it to the Chinese and as for their energy policy with these no polluting nuclear power stations that we have to buy our UK energy from as we don't produce enough - well - its about time the French learnt how to run their country properly.

PS do we have any family silver left that we can sell to any other country!

 

[jordanbasset]

I have always thought that after Greece the area I would keep a boat would be Southern Brittany, wonderful cruising area. Okay I would have to accept a step down in terms of quality of food but you cannot have everything

 

[charles_reed]

I should point out that the same sums don't apply if you're looking to park a boat somewhere pleasant in Mediterranean France!

On the contrary, I was paying €1630 pa in Argeles Port.

 

[charles_reed]

I have always thought that after Greece the area I would keep a boat would be Southern Brittany, wonderful cruising area. Okay I would have to accept a step down in terms of quality of food but you cannot have everything

Aha! You must learn to cook for yourself.

Good restaurant @ Pont Aven - Moulin Rosmadoc. But on the whole créperies seem to be rampant.

 

[Sybarite]

Aha! You must learn to cook for yourself.

Good restaurant @ Pont Aven - Moulin Rosmadoc. But on the whole créperies seem to be rampant.

It's OK, but for me, the best is the restaurant at the Hôtel des Ajoncs d'Or. There is also a good Italian restaurant which is accessed from the boardwalk (Xavier Graal) over the Aven river.

 

[Birdseye]

I used to suffer the £10k a year running costs, but with a young family, priorities had to change. Now I'm running a 20ft weekender and a 21foot mobo and two dinghies for less than £2.5k a year. The combined maintenance for the lot is less than my old Moody 44 as well.

Took time to find a way to reduce costs that much and there are definitely some compromises in there, but if I hadn't done it, I wouldn't be in boating. It's not like I don't earn a decent salary either, so really not surprised that UK marinas are struggling to fill spaces at their current prices.

If I could get a marina berth for a 21 footer for max £2k I would go back to marinas, but most seem to be double my limit.

But this post really illustrates the puzzle. A 44 footer is a big boat by any standard so you can expect it to be pricey and presumably you took that into account when you bought it. But the issue is that you clearly chose the most expensive area of the UK to berth your boat and then quote it to support others proposition that that the UK is expensive compared to a pretty cheap area of France. If you did the same thing in France ie moored in a high cost area, then you would be paying as much if not more than in the UK. Have a look at rates on the french south coast.

Or to put it another way, I live about 2 / 2.5 hours way from you and I moor my boat in a full service marine all tide access deep keel for £1500 for a 36 footer.

The UK issue is a simple one. Much of the money is concentrated in the south east and people living there seem only to think of the solent and other nearby areas for berthing. I guess that for some of them, the french coast is nearer than the cheaper areas of the UK but thats because the French prize other areas down south.

 

[jerrytug]

No. I was previously at Kernevel across the bay but had a falling out with them. They gave the boat keys to people who used the boat without my knowledge or approval.

Locmiquélic was the first port I tried and, at the time nearly half the cost and closer to home. I have never regretted it. Reading the visitors' book, many people rate it as their favourite French marina.

http://www.passeportescales.com/fr/main-locmiquelic-accueil

Thanks that's very interesting. Giving the boat keys to people! Unreal!

 

[JumbleDuck]

I think you need to read again what I actually said.

I did. Frankly, it was just the usual "everything boating is better in France" stuff we've come to know and love. RNLI vs SNSM next?

 

[Sybarite]

I did. Frankly, it was just the usual "everything boating is better in France" stuff we've come to know and love. RNLI vs SNSM next?

Yep. I got the impression that you were speaking from prejudice rather than reason. As usual.

 

[photodog]

Well, Why do we want cheaper marinas??? Have any of you guys actually been sailing lately south of the Clyde??? It's heaving. Can you imagine if suddenly every tom, dick and Chelsea could afford to buy a boat and go sailing??? God almighty it would be leicester-on-the-sea every sunny Saturday. You wouldn't be able to move for the masses of louche medallion wearing types with their beat up Griffons and Centaurs getting in the way.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Yep. I got the impression that you were speaking from prejudice rather than reason.

No, no, my dear fellow. Prejudice is making repetitive postings saying everything is better in France without any reasoned evidence. Ah well, the zeal of the convert, I suppose.