boat heater... charcoal?

I'm one of those who had a very close call with a 'trusted' Taylors cabin heater...

Quite early in the season I was reading, late at night, aboard - and anchored. It was remarkably cold outside, the Taylors paraffin cabin heater was on, and I was reducing the prior season's stock of single malt and water.

Opposite me on't other side of the cabin was a bookshelf. I noticed a small white plastic box propped up on the books, left there by a forumite mate. Numbers displayed on its LED screen seemed to be increasing. Dimly I wondered what the box was for....

I needed a pee, so eventually heaved myself to my feet and clambered onto the deck. While clinging to the shrouds and lowers, admiring the stars, I was struck by how clean and fresh was the air I was now breathing. Eventually.... the penny dropped!

It took just a few moments to go below and turn off the Taylors heater, which was pumping out Carbon Monoxide as a consequence of a rusted flame-spreader producing an unusually bright yellow flame. The damned thing was trying to kill me! Insidious or what?

It was, I think, a lucky escape. The old brain cells are not yet back to a 'normal performance'....
Click to expand...


In consequence, I'm now rather more wary of cabin heaters than before, and would encourage us all to download and read the helpful comment in this:


gas.jpg


http://www.boatsafetyscheme.org/media/180329/carbon-monoxide-safety-on-boats-june14.pdf


....especially this bit....

gases.jpg
 
One thing I haven't heard anyone mention in the discussions about Carbon Monoxide is that it is VITAL to keep the flue clear. Charcoal shouldn't pose problems in this directions, as it is pretty much pure carbon and burns cleanly. But other types of fuel (e.g. wood, coal, smokeless fuels, even poor quality charcoal) may generate tar as they burn, which could accumulate in the flue and eventually narrow or block it. Further, the flue needs to be designed so that winds from various directions can't cause a down-draught, as can notoriously happen with some house chimneys!
 
AntarcticPilot said:
Only if the flue is working correctly. I'm sure we've all experienced chimneys where the wind in the wrong direction causes a down-draught! And, of course, it presupposes that the flue is clear.
Click to expand...

You don't get a down-draught without a through-draught ... the stuff coming down the chimney has to get out somewhere.

That said, when I eventually get around to lighting my nice, new Hampshire Heater, I'll be taking CO safety seriously - one electronic alarm, a few "Dead Stops" and fire out at bedtime, but I thin the comparison between flue gases and the combustion products of a stove is a bit inapt.
 
Re fire out at bedtime. There was a fatal accident at our local pub which also has a campsite. A family had had a BBQ and at night put it inside the tent assuming it was out. It wasn't and was still smouldering. In the morning they found their daughter dead of CO poisoning. I spose the safe way with a charcoal stove is to douse it with water. A stove does have a flue unlike an open BBQ. Not as safe as a sealed room heater like an eber though.
 
ghostlymoron said:
Re fire out at bedtime. There was a fatal accident at our local pub which also has a campsite. A family had had a BBQ and at night put it inside the tent assuming it was out. It wasn't and was still smouldering. In the morning they found their daughter dead of CO poisoning. I spose the safe way with a charcoal stove is to douse it with water.
Click to expand...

On mine you close the air vent tight, at which point the who stove is sealed from the cabin although still vented up the chimney.
 
ghostlymoron said:
Re fire out at bedtime. There was a fatal accident at our local pub which also has a campsite. A family had had a BBQ and at night put it inside the tent assuming it was out. It wasn't and was still smouldering. In the morning they found their daughter dead of CO poisoning. I spose the safe way with a charcoal stove is to douse it with water. A stove does have a flue unlike an open BBQ. Not as safe as a sealed room heater like an eber though.
Click to expand...

Gawd, what an awful story. That poor family.
To be honest, I was getting a tiny bit irked at the constant reminders of the dangers of carbon monoxide.
But this has brought me up short.
I have three kids of my own.

It is true that a flue'ed system is very different from an open bbq.
And there are alarms... but I still need to be cautious.

Thanks
S
 
ghostlymoron said:
Re fire out at bedtime. There was a fatal accident at our local pub which also has a campsite. A family had had a BBQ and at night put it inside the tent assuming it was out. It wasn't and was still smouldering. In the morning they found their daughter dead of CO poisoning. I spose the safe way with a charcoal stove is to douse it with water. A stove does have a flue unlike an open BBQ. Not as safe as a sealed room heater like an eber though.
Click to expand...

Every year a few people fatally attempt to heat tents with instant barbecues.
 
JumbleDuck said:
Every year a few people fatally attempt to heat tents with instant barbecues.
Click to expand...

And although it is not as frequent an occurrence, people die from time to time in the Polar regions when well-maintained and expertly operated fuel-burning stoves emit CO in the confines of a tent. There isn't an option in the Polar regions - it's a bit difficult cooking and melting ice to drink in a gale at -20C! But EVERYONE who works in that environment is well aware of the risks, and yet fatalities (although rare these days, thankfully) do happen.

Flues are surprisingly easy to block, and it can happen without people being aware. In the Polar regions, fine snow blocking the ventilation chimney of the tent has happened; snow is very penetrative. Given the level of awareness of the hazard, this has been a factor in most recent cases of CO poisoning in the polar regions. I'd imagine that on most boats, snow reduces the level of ventilation substantially by blocking ventilators; certainly a couple of inches of snow on Capricious would block all the ventilators. And snow can't be discounted, even as late as April or May, in the UK.

Personally I am VERY wary of fuel burning appliances operating in the cabin. My cooker is only on when I am cooking, and I have a CO alarm. We do burn candles, but only one or two for decoration - they aren't a realistic means of either heating or lighting the cabin, so the amount of CO emitted is minimal. They are never left burning unattended. We heat the cabin with an Eberspacher, which ensures that combustion gases cannot enter the cabin; the combustion air and exhaust are externally vented.

I like solid fuel stoves - I depended on one during one field season in Spitzbergen. But they aren't very efficient as a means of heating, because to be safe most of the heat has to go up the chimney! A solid fuel stove will certainly generate carbon monoxide, and the only way to be safe is to be absolutely sure that ALL the combustion gas is going up the chimney, which in turn means a lot of the heat being used to maintain the draught up the chimney..

One side note - I once looked into it when I was considering living aboard, and the cheapest, safest and most efficient way of heating Capricious when in a marina would have been a fan-heater run off the marina power supply. Far cheaper to both buy and operate than anything else, even at Marina rates for the electricity! Of course, no use when off the mains, which is why I have an Eberspacher.
 
I made one last year based on the pansy.
Very simple really
A length of stainless exhaust tube to suit a small caste iron gully grate.
A fitted top and bottom both using the next size up of stainless tubing capped with thin stainless sheet.
Both secured with a pair of short studs and wingnuts.
A length of small diameter tube bent to 90 degrees as chimney plus suitable straight chimney pipe.
Airvent being a section of the main tube cut square and slightly opened out and adjusted with a stud and wing nut over an air hole.
All these bits are on e bay and its really just a modded pansy design including its measurements.
You can find a Pansy instruction book online.
How to light it?
Traditionally its meths and firelighters.
However one of the current commercial manufacturers uses a gas blow torch-you just load the stove,lock it down and fire the blow torch through the air vent for a few minutes- quick and clean.
Carbon monoxide?
I have just fitted a good detector in my boat and with my boat shut down apart from the louvres in the hatch I get nothing detected!
 
ffiill said:
I made one last year based on the pansy.
Very simple really
A length of stainless exhaust tube to suit a small caste iron gully grate.
A fitted top and bottom both using the next size up of stainless tubing capped with thin stainless sheet.
Both secured with a pair of short studs and wingnuts.
A length of small diameter tube bent to 90 degrees as chimney plus suitable straight chimney pipe.
Airvent being a section of the main tube cut square and slightly opened out and adjusted with a stud and wing nut over an air hole.
All these bits are on e bay and its really just a modded pansy design including its measurements.
You can find a Pansy instruction book online.
How to light it?
Traditionally its meths and firelighters.
However one of the current commercial manufacturers uses a gas blow torch-you just load the stove,lock it down and fire the blow torch through the air vent for a few minutes- quick and clean.
Carbon monoxide?
I have just fitted a good detector in my boat and with my boat shut down apart from the louvres in the hatch I get nothing detected!
Click to expand...


You make it sound very easy!
Did you do a guide on the web as I think I saw something like you describe.
When I looked at the cost of the steel tube I discounted it, but I may reconsider as I am realising I am not going to get a good solution in place for peanuts (not even roasted ones).
 
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