Boat fall tragedy in Weymouth

[KREW2]

Good point. Maybe clubs will be required to have properly-trained staff?

They need ground rules, simple do's and don'ts.
Dipper and I work together at our club, doing lift in/out, as well as looking at cradles and checking moorings.
A few years ago I was not happy with a cradle, the boat happened to be next to mine, and I considered the owner a good acquaintance.
I was told to mind my own business. Lucky for me when it fell over two weeks later it went to starboard, damaging three other boats
There will always be one who thinks the rules don't apply to them so short of 24 hour policing what can you do?
You can take a horse to water, but you can't make them drink.

 

[pvb]

You can take a horse to water, but you can't make them drink.

Sadly, the HSE can be persuasive.

 

[KREW2]

Sadly, the HSE can be persuasive.

Yes, rightly or wrongly, but soon we will not be able to change a light bulb on our boats without having an "expert" do it.
They tried to do it with antifouling, a so called "professional" would need to do it.
To be a "professional" all you need to do is wear a mask, goggles and an anti radiation suit and your in.

 

[Norman_E]

Whilst he may have moved the pads we can only see the intact side of the cradle in the photos. It is quite possible that the cradle, which looks like a fairly old one may have failed due to wind pressure and rusted welds. Doubtless the enquiry will tell us due course, but I don't think we should be too quick to assume that the victim was the cause.

 

[pvb]

Doubtless the enquiry will tell us due course, but I don't think we should be too quick to assume that the victim was the cause.

Very true, it may just have been an unfortunate coincidence.

 

[sarabande]

From the pic, it looks as if the boat might have been too far back in the cradle, with the rear struts possibly ahead of the engine. The port strut looks as if it was underneath the hull, rather than higher up and out to the side, as e.g. Jacobs recommend. Struts are not primarily vertical supports, but lateral ones.

Do the brush and pot to the left of the pic indicate that there was a sudden problem, and the owner tried to respond quickly ?

 

[Elessar]

I doubt that a boatyard would allow people to put carrier bags on cradle pads, which are supposed to have some degree of friction. As one is stuck to the hull, it's likely that the bags were added by the owner subsequently. Still a dreadful outcome, and maybe one step closer to legislation preventing us from doing amateur work on our boats.

You are spot on I reacon - friction is the key.

Last year the boat owner next to me did the same with bags, His boat fell onto mine whilst i was underneath changing anodes (mobo so low/no keel) and he was stood between the 2 boats when it happened. Fortunately we both moved in time and we got away with it. Very scary though. I can still hear the noise in my head.

In the same yard I witnessed 3 boat dominoes 2 years before. That time the owner moved the chock onto wet epoxy - again no friction. No injuries but lots of damage.

What a terribly high price for such a small error. (if our speculation is correct). Thoughts with those involved.

 

[prv]

Sad indeed + reporting without reserch
Yes she was a 1/2 Tonner. Rating 1/2 Ton not displacement & certainly not "wooden"

A company director has been crushed to death by his own half-ton wooden yacht after it toppled over on top of him while he was working on it.

I'd expect nothing else from the Mail. If anything I'm mildly surprised they didn't shoe-horn "luxury" in there somewhere, and tell us the price of his house.

Pete

 

[Ardenfour]

As most have said, very early to speculate the cause, but from the picture in post 11, the two struts supporting the props do look as though they're far too thin for the job - weld failure or corrosion perhaps? Although as I understand it the weight is all on the keel and the props are only resisting the horizontal forces.
Poor, poor guy, and sobering as I'll be doing the same job tomorrow...

 

[LittleSister]

as I understand it the weight is all on the keel and the props are only resisting the horizontal forces.

Note that the forces on the prop are not horizontal: a horizontal force on the boat (e.g.wind) will not push the boat along sideways, but rotate it around its pivot point, which is the base of the keel it is standing on.

Therefore, as I see it, the props should ideally be in line with an arc centred on the base of the keel, so that the force on the prop is compressing it along its length, not trying to bend it.

Ideally, also, the pads would be as high up the side of the boat as possible. In practice the combination of the two would require a very wide base for the cradle, and take more room than the average boatyard or club would be willing to tolerate, therefore a degree of compromise is required.

Most boats seem to manage ok with the pads just below the waterline. The props on the port hand side of the boat in front of the fallen one in the pic in post #11 look a pretty good compromise to me. (Strangely, though, the right hand aft prop looks much more vertical, but perhaps that's a optical illusion.)

 

[penberth3]

I doubt that a boatyard would allow people to put carrier bags on cradle pads, which are supposed to have some degree of friction...

I know it's late, but I don't get the thing about friction. If the geometry and position of the supports are right, the hull shouldn't be able to move at all, regardless of "friction". Gravity will keep it sitting there. Or have I missed something?

 

[Joker]

'The Times' report has some suspicious similarities to the Mail report. They too think a GK29 is wooden.

 

[prv]

I know it's late, but I don't get the thing about friction. If the geometry and position of the supports are right, the hull shouldn't be able to move at all, regardless of "friction". Gravity will keep it sitting there. Or have I missed something?

I guess it's the difference between an idealised model and reality. Yes if everything is perfectly balanced the only force on the support is compression and you could use a roller-skate for the hull contact without it sliding away. In practice there's always going to be some sideways force along with the compression, and the interface to the hull needs to resist that force.

Pete

 

[pvb]

'The Times' report has some suspicious similarities to the Mail report. They too think a GK29 is wooden.

Most newspaper reports are cut-and-paste, so will keep repeating errors. But the Express has more sensible info, saying the boat weighs 3 tons. It also says that this was the guy's first boat, so he was probably antifouling for the first time.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/947715/sailor-crushed-death-yacht-falls-kevin-keeler

 

[mjcoon]

I guess it's the difference between an idealised model and reality. Yes if everything is perfectly balanced the only force on the support is compression and you could use a roller-skate for the hull contact without it sliding away. In practice there's always going to be some sideways force along with the compression, and the interface to the hull needs to resist that force.

Pete

Not to mention someone stumbling into the support while in a vulnerable location...

Mike.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

Note that the forces on the prop are not horizontal: a horizontal force on the boat (e.g.wind) will not push the boat along sideways, but rotate it around its pivot point, which is the base of the keel it is standing on.

Therefore, as I see it, the props should ideally be in line with an arc centred on the base of the keel, so that the force on the prop is compressing it along its length, not trying to bend it.

Ideally, also, the pads would be as high up the side of the boat as possible. In practice the combination of the two would require a very wide base for the cradle, and take more room than the average boatyard or club would be willing to tolerate, therefore a degree of compromise is required.

Most boats seem to manage ok with the pads just below the waterline. The props on the port hand side of the boat in front of the fallen one in the pic in post #11 look a pretty good compromise to me. (Strangely, though, the right hand aft prop looks much more vertical, but perhaps that's a optical illusion.)

My cradle is as you describe. The wide base easily sits in the gap between hulls that the travel hoist needs.

Based on what I have read in this thread, it sounds like some regulation is needed as amateurs are damaging their own and others boats as well as nearly killing one another.

 

[lpdsn]

Most newspaper reports are cut-and-paste, so will keep repeating errors. But the Express has more sensible info, saying the boat weighs 3 tons. It also says that this was the guy's first boat, so he was probably antifouling for the first time.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/947715/sailor-crushed-death-yacht-falls-kevin-keeler

That seems a much more informed report. To be fair to the other papers there's a good few who sail who are confused about what a half-tonner might weight, although a bit on the heavy side 3t seems plausible for one of that vintage. Westely may have added an extra few hundredweight of resin just to be sure to be sure.

The mention of the cradle collapsing or buckling also might have some credibility. There were hints of that in one of the photos with a bent leg just visible. I'm more comfortable with that than blaming the deceased on scanty evidence. We'll see in due course no doubt.

 

[penberth3]

...Based on what I have read in this thread, it sounds like some regulation is needed as amateurs are damaging their own and others boats as well as nearly killing one another...

It's enforcement that's needed, maybe that's what you meant. If it's a commercial boatyard there's already legislation that covers all this.

 

[KREW2]

Local paper has just released photo's of him. He was a father of five, just moved to Weymouth and a new club member, absolutely tragic.
You don't expect go down to do a bit of maintenance on your boat and not come back.
Papers saying a prop may have failed. The rear one on the right certainly looks as though it has given way.
I know we should not speculate, but maybe, if the front prop was dropped the rear prop may not have been able to take the weight on it's own.
We were lifting in on Monday morning, Portland Harbour. If I remember wind was only about 10/12 Knts, from the SW so unlikely to have been the cause.

 

[penberth3]

...I know we should not speculate, but maybe, if the front prop was dropped the rear prop may not have been able to take the weight on it's own...

Correct, shouldn't speculate, but if you've got to release a prop wouldn't you add a temporary prop to take the load?