Boat buyer after money following sale - advice please

[paul_B]

Hi everyone,

We sold our motor boat in August this year. It was in Spain.

The buyer did not want a survey or sea trial prior to purchase, nor did they want one prior to completion.

They asked me to sign a piece of paper to say I was unaware of any damage to the boat or mechanical defects during our ownership. I wasn’t; so did this for them.

They have today emailed me out of the blue (over three months later!) saying that a month ago they took the boat out for the first time and claimed that both trim switches were defective, and that the engine was running below what they expected at 3.100 RPM. They state the switches have been fixed and they are awaiting an invoice.

They are asking what I will do to resolve this with them.

Where do I stand legally? I was not aware of any of these issues, and so much time has passed. They are first time boat owners also so perhaps don’t understand how things always stop working on boats.

We completed a standard contract through a broker and I can’t see anything that makes us liable in any way. I am unsure if there is anything else o need to be aware of? The contract states the terms of the contract are covered and governed by English law and English courts. We are in England, the boat in Spain, and the buyers in Germany!

Thanks in advance,

Paul.

 

[omega2]

Like Brexit, tell them go whistle.!! If they want to pursue the matter they will need a lot of cash, and as we Brits have none they up the swanee.

 

[BruceK]

I'm not a lawyer but I'm pretty sure if all you say is correct that is the old chestnut, Caveat emptor. But I guess it has all to do with the wording on that piece of paper and if any warranty was implied.

 

[paul_B]

I'm not a lawyer but I'm pretty sure if all you say is correct that is the old chestnut, Caveat emptor. But I guess it has all to do with the wording on that piece of paper and if any warranty was implied.

I say piece of paper, it was actually an email which only said this:

“As discussed, this is to confirm since ownership of "Time For Us", we are unaware of any damage being caused to the boat, nor any mechanical issues. “

 

[TallBuoy]

I reckon they are simply trying it on, without a leg to stand on. I'd politely respond that you were not aware of any defects at the time of the sale, then it becomes their problem to pursue the matter.

 

[volvopaul]

Just ignore it, if they then hassle you give them the I’ll contact the police as this is harassment.

The sale was bought as seen , buyer beware.
They may just be quite innocent in the fact they think they have some comeback on you .

I assume the boat you sold wasn’t a company boat and your not connected in the marina industry giving the buyer the impression he had a warranty .

 

[Portofino]

I always add when selling mechanical items at the foot of the receipt which we both sign words to the effect

[ Descriptions. Here ]“ as seen and approved without warranty “ for the sum of ( insert €)

Next time maybe :encouragement:

 

[kashurst]

ignore it - don't get drawn into any kind of conversation by phone, email etc
might be worth getting a second pair of eyes read the contract just to check you are free and clear.

no sea trial,no survey, leave it for 2 months unused - idiots.

 

[Baddox]

Low engine revs could very possibly be caused by fouling from the boat not being used for over three months.

 

[petem]

Assuming they're are legs, the trim issues could be as simple as two sets of corroded relays (they're pretty much consumables). Best case, ten minutes and some contact cleaner, worse case four £8 relays and twenty minutes to fix it.

 

[oldgit]

Agree with the general consensus.
Do nothing for now, do not even respond as this would encourage them that you may be prepared to give way at some point.The crux of the matter is they would have to prove beyond reasonable doubt that you knew the fault existed and deliberately witheld the info...Wish them lucK with that.
Would suggest they are testing the water after being presented with an eyewatering invoice by somebody making the most of the repair and who has helpfully suggested that the bill payer chase you for payment ..
I defy you to find single boat owner, who after purchase has not found something major or minor to whinge about, no matter how carefully the boat was vetted prior to purchase.
The courts would be at standstill
A minor issue and the new owner really needs to sort this himself not come running to you..
Sit tight ....

Have just spent 2 days clearing the calcification from bog exit pipe,,,wonder if can sue the previous owner for not only the work but for the dozen showers to get rid of the pervading pong from me !

 

[Nick_H]

It seems to me you gave a warranty, and the buyer relied on the warranty to make the purchase, as evidenced by the fact that he didn't do a survey or sea trial. I'm therefore far less confident than others that you're in the clear, but only a solicitor will tell you for sure. I wouldn't rush to do that though, and would start by dismissing the claim out of hand, and see if the buyer pursues it further.

There's no reason to think the issues are major though, or costly to fix, so I wouldn't lose any sleep over it in the meantime

 

[petem]

What would people do if asked to make a similar declaration at the 11th hour when selling a boat?

 

[fergie_mac66]

I would reply with truth and use a double passworded uneditable pdf for any statement.

 

[duncan99210]

What would people do if asked to make a similar declaration at the 11th hour when selling a boat?

Warn the buyer that no warranty was implied or offered, tell them to get their own expert in to check. If that kills the sale, so be it. There's no way I'd ever consider offering any warranty, actual or implied on a boat, too many things to go wrong.

 

[petem]

Warn the buyer that no warranty was implied or offered, tell them to get their own expert in to check. If that kills the sale, so be it. There's no way I'd ever consider offering any warranty, actual or implied on a boat, too many things to go wrong.

OK, and what would you reply (if you were the seller) if asked in the early stages of a sale whether you know if any issues, defect or other problems with the boat?

 

[BruceK]

OK, and what would you reply (if you were the seller) if asked in the early stages of a sale whether you know if any issues, defect or other problems with the boat?

That is such a subjective question that really it is meaningless. Ask me that about my boat and I'd say nothing. And indeed I have no issues and defects or problems. But I can assure you as well, the boat bloody well has! And from what I understand even fresh from the showroom floor..... the boat bloody well has! Such is the nature of boats.
As to the question would I tell? Absolutely, if I thought it was something that went beyond age related, wear related, acceptable use etc etc But then really that much should also become obvious to the punter if they do due diligence. If they dont, well you take your chances. Sold as seen.

 

[julians]

I'd tell them any defects I knew about, If I wasnt aware of any I'd say I wasnt aware of any.

Note, saying I'm not aware of any is very different to saying there arent any defects.

I think the op is in the clear, he stated he wasnt aware of any defects, so the buyer has two issues, first proving the defect existed at the time of sale (now that 3 months has passed), and then proving that the seller knew about the defect.

There's no chance of this being possible, th e buyer is just trying it on, just ignore them.

 

[jfm]

Paul, if you have described things completely and accurately in your post, and if you were not aware of any problems with the boat, then you have absolutely no liability here. It is beyond any doubt. English law is very clear on this. I would reply telling them that you have no responsibility for any boat costs/issues now that they own it. Keep it v short unless you know your way around the law. But those are two quite important "ifs".

It seems to me you gave a warranty, and the buyer relied on the warranty to make the purchase, as evidenced by the fact that he didn't do a survey or sea trial. I'm therefore far less confident than others that you're in the clear, but only a solicitor will tell you for sure. I wouldn't rush to do that though, and would start by dismissing the claim out of hand, and see if the buyer pursues it further.

. Nick, I'm surprised at your conclusion. What Paul did was make a statement merely as to his awareness. If he truly wasn't aware of problems then he is in good shape. If he was aware of problems then a punchy opponent can argue that he made a fraudulent misrepresentation and unless trivial that allows buyer to rescind not merely seek damages. But in either case it seems he did not give a "warranty" that deals with breakdowns/events occurring after the sale.

There is a separate point as to timing: if Paul gave the "not aware" statement only before completion, rather than before contract, he is much less exposed because (contrary to what you say I think) the buyer cannot have relied on it in entering into the contract. If the "not aware" bit of paper was signed before completion then the buyer might say he relied on it to complete, but as he was already obliged to complete then his "reliance" claim has no legs. So I'm not totally getting your reliance point

 

[Richard10002]

I say piece of paper, it was actually an email which only said this:

“As discussed, this is to confirm since ownership of "Time For Us", we are unaware of any damage being caused to the boat, nor any mechanical issues. “

Assuming this was true, i don’t see how it implies that you were warranting no damage or mechanical issues during ownership, merely no knowledge.

When I sell houses, I often answer with the phrase, “not as far as I am aware”, as an honest answer. It’s not a guarantee that the subject of the question hasn’t happened, or doesn’t exist, or whatever... it merely guarantees that I was not aware of it.

Presumably they received a file of regular servicing invoices and reports, and an absence of anything suggesting damage and/or mechanical issues? How long had you owned the boat?

You can’t stop someone from issuing legal proceedings and, if they do, you have to decide whether to defend or not.

Until then it’s just a try on.