blue ensign

[captainslarty]

Personally, I cant for the life of me think why anyone would want to fly a blue ensign in the first place.. bit like the odd ones who take the darn thing in at dusk and out in the morning or whatever time they do such things, a flag is a flag, it just says you are a brit / ni.
When abroad it only causes confusion, red is best imho.

A bit like someone in a yottie club being refered to as commodore, captain admiral or similar silly titles... /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Joe
My title is Master under God of the good ship Ruddles /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

 

[2Tizwoz]

<span style="color:blue"> RNYC Ensign and Burgee </span>

'A full member of RNYC whose vessel is registered on either the Part I or Part III (small ships) register, and satisfies certain measurement requirements may apply to the Honorary Secretary for a permit to wear the Club's special Ensign - a blue ensign defaced with the badge of the club, the Percy Lion. Permits are issued under the conditions of a Warrant granted to the Club by the Secretary of State for Defence.

The defaced blue ensign may only be worn on a yacht used for exclusively for private and personal purposes and when the permit holder in person is in effective command of the vessel. When the Ensign is worn, the Club burgee should also be flown from either the main masthead or 'other suitable position'. When in harbour the ensign should be hoisted at 0800 (0900 between 1 Nov and 14 Feb) and lowered at sunset or 2100 local time if earlier. If you are going ashore and are not likely to return before the relevant time you should adopt the practice of 'early colours' and lower the ensign and burgee when you leave the vessel. Neither ensign nor burgee should be left flying on an unattended vessel.

Provided the conditions in the permit are met, the club's defaced blue ensign qualifies as 'proper national colours' for the purposes of the Merchant Shipping Act 1995, s.2. Any flag other than a red ensign (or blue ensign in the circumstances set out) is not proper national colours and wearing such a flag as an national ensign may be a criminal offence.

The traditional club burgee

has red borders on two sides, as shown here. In recent years variations of this traditional design have arisen. The traditional position for a burgee is at the main masthead on a stick or some other support. It is now common practice to fly the burgee from the lower starboard mast spreader. Strictly this is the place to fly the Q flag or the national courtesy flag when visiting a foreign country. It is a breach of flag etiquette to fly any flag above a national courtesy flag on the same flag halyard. House flags (e.g. the RNLI flag) may be hoisted on the port spreader flag halyard.'

I don't have either. Should I?

The Percy lion looks quite nice

Particularly on his Tenantry Column

 

[SvenglishTommy]

Only in England could you get this sort of crap. :sigh:

Dont you get embarrassed by even knowing the rules?

 

[gandy]

[ QUOTE ]
Only in England could you get this sort of crap. :sigh:

Dont you get embarrassed by even knowing the rules?

[/ QUOTE ]Also Scotland. And yes, it does seem a bit silly. We're members of a "Royal" club and I see a few undefaced Blues around, but most boats seem to use the Red. Too much hassle with warrants and burgees.

 

[srp]

This is much more complex than I thought. From my observations over the last few years I thought that to wear a Blue Ensign all you had to do was motor through moorings at high speed to create an enormous wash, and make a complete balls up of tying up at a pontoon, or even an almighty balls up if you have a big motor cruiser with twin engines and a bow thruster. I had no idea (based on these observations) that there was any naval connection whatsoever. How wrong I am. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[IanR]

Its interesting how these conversations return almost inevitably to the concept of the class system.

What would Ronnie Barker and John Cleese say!!

Personally I have joined a club which is privileged , its a great social and sailing club, we join in on the rallies frequently, and I am proud to wear the defaced ensign which identifies us a member of the club. I also am proud of the red ensign which demonstrates a legacy of maritime heritage.

Why do people often feel the need to impose our preconceptions on the choices of others

Personal choice

 

[2Tizwoz]

Some colours have a quite different image

But are worn with a similar pride and sense of tradition.

 

[bumblefish]

They are nice aren't they? Brighton RNLI like it as well!

 

[Poignard]

[ QUOTE ]
I cant for the life of me think why anyone would want to fly a blue ensign in the first place..

[/ QUOTE ]

...or choose Stilton instead of Cheddar; or bitter instead of lager; or a Rolex instead of a Casio; or to live in the Cotswolds instead of Hackney Marshes; or do anything else one might choose to do.

Maybe you'd like us all to wear boiler suits and call each other "comrade".

It's about people doing what they want and, if it doesn't hurt anyone, what's the problem?

 

[Seven Spades]

[ QUOTE ]
The term "British" used in NI is inescapably political and offends many. This isn't an entirely Loyalist / Nationalist thing, however: I've yet to meet someone of either (or neither) persuasion from NI who is happy about carrying a GB sticker on his/her car when abroad.

Sticking purely to the facts (and avoiding relatively minor issues like the status of Berwick): Great Britain = Scotland, England, Wales. UK = Scotland, England, Wales, Northern Ireland. Use of Britain (or, for that matter, and thankfully becoming less common, England) when UK is actually meant excludes, deliberately or otherwise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Firstly don't take the Great out of Britain it is always Great Britain.

Secondly if you are are going to talk about definitions that rember that The British Isles includes England, Wales, Scotland and all of Ireland

 

[Lizzie_B]

British Isles includes Wales ,Scotland, England, Northern Ireland and several thousand lesser Isles, technically including Eire as well. The term 'Great Britain' refers to the largest of these many Islands.
Less Britain is now called Brittany and much to the dismay of many Bretagnes is under French control.

In fact, if we wanted to be pedantic and go back far enough one could make a reasonable case for the English being the least 'British' of all.

United Kingdom is just as potentially provocative to some (especially in N. Ireland) who resent being reminded that they are subjects of the Realm of her Britannic Majesty.
/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[DaveS]

To answer your points...

Don't know about "always Great Britain". It only came into existance in 1707 and was (arguably) superseded as an independent political entity on the formation of the UK in 1800.

I agree with your partial definition of the British Isles, but for completeness it should of course also contain Man. IMO it is an entirely geographical term describing the archipeligo with no political overtones. If you search, you will find I have defended this point of view against posters from the RoI (or Ireland as they insist on calling it - more politics) where use of the term "British Isles" is now, apparently, officially discouraged. AFAIK no concise alternative label has been suggested.

I'm not sure, however, what any of this has to do with the previous discussion... /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[Lizzie_B]

and Netherlands, and USA and someone has also mentioned Italy, and no doubt with a bit of research quite a few others could be found.
Perhaps 'only in Britain' could such an intense objection and apparent resentment be raised towards people celebrating their Maritime history and traditions.

Even if we were the only country, what's wrong with being unique? /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

[Lakesailor]

Surely people who keep there boat in Scotland wouldn't join the Royal Yorkshire Yacht Club just so they could fly a defaced blue ensign. Would they?

 

[Lizzie_B]

Actually the term Great Britain was certainly in use by early medieval times. And the terms British and Briton can certainly be used without any political reference to the Acts of Union, and were in use to refer to the inhabitants of these Isles before Caesar viewed our shores.

 

[DaveS]

I see a number of boats visiting from the Netherlands every year, but AFAICR their ensigns looked the same as their national flag. Visitors from the USA are rarer, but again I can't remember seeing anything other than the normal USA flag. These were all yachts, of course; maybe their navies are different?

 

[DaveS]

Indeed, and introducing historic usage without context can be extremely confusing c.f "the Scots came from Ireland", "Strathclyde was a British kingdom" etc.

My original point was that the current political entity, which all the various ensigns under discussion relate to, is the UK, not a part of it. In that context, it might help to make it clearer if it is recalled that the flag of Great Britain, created in 1707, was replaced by the present UK flag in 1800. Ex-GB naval (and presumably other) ensigns were modified or replaced at the same time.

 

[Lizzie_B]

Certain Netherlands yacht clubs are entitled to wear an ensign defaced by their club insignia in the centre of the white band. The USA has a yacht ensign and a special ensign for members of the power squadron.

 

[Lizzie_B]

I thought your original point was about offending the people of Northern Ireland - who, of course, have many fine 'priviledged' yacht clubs. My point was that the use of Unted Kingdom is probably likely to offend just as many.

The fact is that they remain, like the English, Scottish, and Welsh, subjects of her Brittanic Majesty, and as such can correctly and collectively be referred to as British.

As a Welshman,I can understand their dislike and clearly our Alex thinks a large number of Scots feel the same way.

 

[DaveS]

[ QUOTE ]
The fact is that they remain, like the English, Scottish, and Welsh, subjects of her Brittanic Majesty, and as such can correctly and collectively be referred to as British.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't want to labour this, but the above is incorrect. The state to which we both happen to belong is The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, more commonly contracted to the UK. Note the "and".

Liz may well be commonly referred to as her Brittanic Maj., but that is also a contraction, in this case the first part of an extremely lengthy title that I'm not about to attempt, but which makes the distinction clear. By your reasoning a citizen of any of the nations of which she happens to be head of state should "correctly and collectively be referred to as British". Methinks our Kiwi posters might have a view on this!