Blue ensign dick'ed

[john_morris_uk]

Good example here of the difference between reality and internet/journalistic "reality". They are two different things entirely.

I don't believe a word of all this guff about "iffy" reactions to the blue, or apoplexies triggered by the dragon etc. The real world is a much calmer and more sensible place than the internet, which is where such things kick off.

Mind you, my experience of sailing on the south coast (and I do mean south, not south west) is very limited. If they have adopted internet/journalistic "reality" in those parts, well, so be it, but I shall continue to make sure I keep well clear.

Bah! It's all my eye and Betty Martin!

I'm afraid that for a few people, there is a marked difference in reaction.

We know this is true by the way that the reactions and friendliness of a few people is markedly different when we have 'red days' and Serendipity wears a red ensign. Its all rather pathetic IMHO and we are mildly amused by the inverted snobbery of a few...

(obviously not the same people, but we notice the difference between a random sample.)

 

[Serin]

I'm afraid that for a few people, there is a marked difference in reaction.

Not my experience. My boat has had "his 'n hers" ensigns all her long (40 year) life (my red and his undefaced blue) and have never encountered the slightest difference in the attitudes of the many people we have met over the years according to which ensign we were wearing.

If this does happen, then I can't help wondering if it is yet another difference in culture between the south and east coasts and makes me love my own muddy paradise even more. As far as I am concerned, I have no time at all for the sad souls who do make these distinctions.

 

[john_morris_uk]

Not my experience. My boat has had "his 'n hers" ensigns all her long (40 year) life (my red and his undefaced blue) and have never encountered the slightest difference in the attitudes of the many people we have met over the years according to which ensign we were wearing.

If this does happen, then I can't help wondering if it is yet another difference in culture between the south and east coasts and makes me love my own muddy paradise even more. As far as I am concerned, I have no time at all for the sad souls who do make these distinctions.

I agree and we just shrug our shoulders and move on. We have noticed it here on the S Coast a few times. In fact its one of the reasons we bought a red ensign.

 

[Mark-1]

Not my experience.

I've been on a pontoon in Scotland and a Blue Flagger turned up. A handful of bystanders openly commented on his arrival in a disproving way, and wheras I had been given cheery 'Hellos' on my arrival and chat between boats was common I saw nobody talk to the Blue Flagger the whole evening/following morning.

A South Coast blue flagger friend once chuckled and said he wore his blue flag because it pissed people off. He was joking, but as with most jokes there was a kernel of truth.

So IME the issue does exist to some degree and not just in the South. I'm not sure it's a 'problem' though.

 

[Poignard]

Interesting thread, re needing a warrant etc to fly a Blue Ensign would be interesting to know if any one who has a Blue Ensign ever been stopped and asked to show their warrant by a Government official
Can't see it happening in Greece and if it did would expect an ebay receipt to be sufficient

Years ago I had RNSA mooring. One afternoon we returned from a sail and I started getting ready to leave the boat to go home. I had just lowered the RNSA burgee when I was called by swmbo to attend to something urgent in the cabin. I went below, leaving the blue ensign flying. A few moments later I returned on deck in time to be confronted by a stout red-faced Captain RN (Retd) in a dinghy who loudly demanded that I immediately lower the ensign and then gave me a brief pep-talk on flag etiquette before rowing away. I am not often ''lost for words" but this onslaught was so unexpected that I could do nothing but stand there open-mouthed and speechless!

I still carry the undefaced blue ensign on board but these days it is rarely comes out of the locker. Sometimes, if I find myself near some snobbish and pompous oaf with a large yacht and a defaced blue, I'll fly my undefaced blue at the stern of my little boat in the hope of annoying him.

 

[Serin]

So IME the issue does exist to some degree and not just in the South. I'm not sure it's a 'problem' though.

Well, I suppose that I must concede the issue exists, if some have encountered it in the real world. I discount anything that goes on in these forums because the internet does tend to to cause regression to adolescent tribalism. It often seems to me that the world in which I live and sail and the world as it appears here are on two different planets.

The only encounter I have ever had that is remotely comparable took place a long time ago. A clubbable "chap" of the old school took us to task for failing to hoist the burgee of the club to which we were compulsorily joined by reason of paying some marina fees. We declined and continued to hoist the appropriate burgees of clubs we had actually chosen to join.

I rather like the variety of ensigns we have here and the histories behind them. I suspect that many of the sad souls who get antsy about the blue (if they do) have no idea of that history. I doubt if it would have any impact if they did. People do tend to cling to their shoulder chips.

 

[john_morris_uk]

People clinging to their shoulder chips is amply demonstrated on these forums at times!

 

[dom]

The only encounter I have ever had that is remotely comparable took place a long time ago. A clubbable "chap" of the old school took us to task for failing to hoist the burgee of the club to which we were compulsorily joined by reason of paying some marina fees. We declined and continued to hoist the appropriate burgees of clubs we had actually chosen to join.

I rather like the variety of ensigns we have here and the histories behind them. I suspect that many of the sad souls who get antsy about the blue (if they do) have no idea of that history. I doubt if it would have any impact if they did. People do tend to cling to their shoulder chips.

Perhaps the blue ensign debate got temporarily wrapped up in something a bit more serious in Scotland. FWIW I've never witnessed any form of nastiness here in the Solent, a bit of gentle ribbing perhaps, but even that is reserved for the white duster crew. Perhaps, the ensign mob is a tad jealous?

Anyhow, even on this internet thread the more extravagant anti-blue posts appear to have their roots more in theatrical effect than any lurking sense of malice. As it happened the wonderful image of a black tuxedo'd RYS 'steward' confiscating the Corinthian's whatever-it-is/was prompted me to rewatch 'Monte Carlo or Bust!' where Terry Thomas plays the dastardly Sir Cuthbert Ware-Armitage. Well worth it!

 

[Mark-1]

Perhaps the blue ensign debate got temporarily wrapped up in something a bit more serious in Scotland.

More serious? There is *nothing* more serious than a Blue Flag squabble!

 

[dom]

I still carry the undefaced blue ensign on board but these days it is rarely comes out of the locker. Sometimes, if I find myself near some snobbish and pompous oaf with a large yacht and a defaced blue, I'll fly my undefaced blue at the stern of my little boat in the hope of annoying him.

Gosh you naval lot seem to have forgotten the use of a salvo: next time try a white ensign with an EU flag on the starboard spreader, or perhaps stars and stripes on the back with the union jack flying beneath the welsh dragon on the stbd side ....oh and keep an Epi-Pen handy

 

[Poignard]

Gosh you naval lot seem to have forgotten the use of a salvo: next time try a white ensign with an EU flag on the starboard spreader, or perhaps stars and stripes on the back with the union jack flying beneath the welsh dragon on the stbd side ....oh and keep an Epi-Pen handy

Amazing how much people read into such symbols and how much stereotyping results from them.

Is it allowed not to fly any ensign at all in EH waters, I wonder? If it is a legal requirement, is there anyone to enforce it?

 

[john_morris_uk]

I have been hoping to find an EU ensign incorporating a UK red ensign but

Gone out of fashion?

There might be some remaindered ones going cheap one of these days?

 

[Poignard]

Gone out of fashion?

There might be some remaindered ones going cheap one of these days?

"remaindered" . That's good:encouragement:

 

[Serin]

Perhaps, the ensign mob is a tad jealous?

Only if they sad sacks. There's nothing to be jealous of. And jealousy rots the soul. Steer clear of the jealous - they will rot your soul too if you give them half a chance

Tribalism. I really cannot be bothered with it. Or should I say "can't be arsed". That seems to be the accepted phrase in these parts, although I have never heard it used in the real world. Internet language and internet discourse - a foreign tongue and a foreign culture. One day I shall write my book about it.

 

[Poignard]

Perhaps ensigns will go the way of nodding toy dogs in the back windows of cars. Once popular but now seen as a pointless foibles.

 

[Serin]

Perhaps ensigns will go the way of nodding toy dogs in the back windows of cars. Once popular but now seen as a pointless foibles.

Well, I never bother (am arsed?) with one in home waters, which is where family commitments tend to keep me these days.

One less thing to "banter" about, I suppose. That's a very male form of "humour" and one that I usually find pretty tedious, as it is really just a kind of clashing of antlers, depending on "one up, one down". It's often nothing more than a rather pernicious form of passive aggression. There's a lot of it about and sure ain't anything to do with "wit".

But as long as people insist on perceiving the colour of an ensign as a sign of "one up" this idiocy will go on...and on....and on......and on........

Eleanor Roosevelt, that inexhaustible fountain of with and wisdom, is said to have said - "nobody can make you feel inferior without your permission".........

 

[Tomaret]

Give where this thread has drifted, and reluctant to start another ensign saga, I wonder whether this is the place to ask a serious question?

I have just joined an Association, members of which are entitled to have/fly/wear a defaced Blue Ensign, and I am about to apply to a Club with the same rights. My motives are related to sailing (access to information and expertise, and rallies) and accommodation rather than the ensign.

My question is whether I might cause offence to members of the Association/Club at rallies if I forego the opportunity and continue to use my red ensign. I'm happy to fly burgees at the appropriate time but would rather not have a locker full of different ensigns. Equally, I really don't want to upset anybody, on the basis that if I join the club I should follow the rules, including any unspoken ones.

I'd particularly appreciate the views of members of clubs etc that have blue ensigns.

Neither organisation requires anything other than the money for subs to join, so the blue ensign would denote nothing more than a willingness to use some of my disposable income in a particular way. It neither implies nor precludes any particular level of sailing skills, so getting back to the OP any tendency to dick'ededness is entirely innate.

Mark

 

[[163233]]

My question is whether I might cause offence to members of the Association/Club at rallies if I forego the opportunity and continue to use my red ensign.

I would be astounded if anyone cared in the slightest.

On the other hand you can bet that if I got my big purple one out they'd be apoplectic.

 

[john_morris_uk]

Give where this thread has drifted, and reluctant to start another ensign saga, I wonder whether this is the place to ask a serious question?

I have just joined an Association, members of which are entitled to have/fly/wear a defaced Blue Ensign, and I am about to apply to a Club with the same rights. My motives are related to sailing (access to information and expertise, and rallies) and accommodation rather than the ensign.

My question is whether I might cause offence to members of the Association/Club at rallies if I forego the opportunity and continue to use my red ensign. I'm happy to fly burgees at the appropriate time but would rather not have a locker full of different ensigns. Equally, I really don't want to upset anybody, on the basis that if I join the club I should follow the rules, including any unspoken ones.

I'd particularly appreciate the views of members of clubs etc that have blue ensigns.

Neither organisation requires anything other than the money for subs to join, so the blue ensign would denote nothing more than a willingness to use some of my disposable income in a particular way. It neither implies nor precludes any particular level of sailing skills, so getting back to the OP any tendency to dick'ededness is entirely innate.

Mark

I know several RNSA members who fly the RNSA burgee but their boat wears a red ensign. No one bats an eyelid AFAIK. There are one or two other clubs whose members may apply for their boats to wear the Blue whose members are a bit up themselves, but I'm not going to suggest who I think they are here! All IMHO and from idle and occasional observation.

My feeling is that if members were bothered, I wouldn't want to be in that club.

I do believe in having the right permits and NOT putting made up ensigns on boats though. The red ensign is abused enough without people degrading its traditions and meaning still further.

 

[[163233]]

...made up ensigns...

They're all made up.