Blue ensign dick'ed

[Serin]

You haven't had the dubious pleasure of spending time in my company then! "Can't be arsed" is part of my everyday vocabulary (and has been since long before the Internet).

In fact, I frequently can't be arsed

Back to the flags, Pagan wears the red ensign (a nice big one after somebody slagged off the modest affair that we sported on Erbas!) out of respect for and in memory of my ancestors and relations who sailed, and on occasions died, under those colours

We are entitled to fly a defaced blue through membership of the Cruising Association but to be honest I can't be arsed!

You never know. I'm (kind of) considering buying a fixed chart plotter and I have you in my sights to install it for me, if you are willing. As long as you can be arsed to do it properly!

Respect for the brave seamen who sailed under the red duster - great. But aren't the brave members of the old established yacht clubs who made up such a big proportion of the coastal forces during both world wars equally deserving of respect? That was very dangerous work and is the reason that most of those clubs were granted the privilege of wearing the blue. And what about the bold seafarers of the CA, who made such a noteworthy contribution to small boat seamanship? That's the reason some of the other clubs and associations were honoured.

Thee people earned the right of their organisations to wear the blue and I do think they deserve respect as well. It's not just some kind of gratuitous snobbery.

 

[Resolution]

Tomaret
I belong to a club with a long history of entitlement for members to wear undefaced blue ensigns. It probably is one of the clubs John Morris was thinking about when he described them as clubs where members are a bit up themselves! Lots of members do have blue ensigns on their boats and we do then require attention to the conditions of entitlement - burgee flown, club initials on transom, etc etc. However there is absolutely no pressure on members to ditch their red ensigns if that is what they prefer. When I bought my current yacht I used a red ensign for the first couple of years while I learnt how to handle the boat, specifically because I did not want to be seen as an incompetent arrogant be-blazered twit. (My skin is thicker now, boat handling still barely adequate.)
JBJag27 raises a good point with his "big purple" whatever it was: SIZE
Size matters. A smart yacht will have an ensign that flows over the stern and nearly touches the water. None of this pocket handkerchief stuff. And never allowed to fray, which is an insult to the country. The Dutch seem to have good taste in this respect, one often sees them with really impressive large ones.
Peter

 

[Bru]

You never know. I'm (kind of) considering buying a fixed chart plotter and I have you in my sights to install it for me, if you are willing. As long as you can be arsed to do it properly! .

.... when it comes to electrics and electronics, I can always be arsed to do it properly. There is no other way to do it! (I have no doubt that my first year instructor as an apprentice, the inestimable and indomitable Mr. Philip Freestone, would come back from the dead to give me what for if I didn't!)

Respect for the brave seamen who sailed under the red duster - great. But aren't the brave members of the old established yacht clubs who made up such a big proportion of the coastal forces during both world wars equally deserving of respect? That was very dangerous work and is the reason that most of those clubs were granted the privilege of wearing the blue. And what about the bold seafarers of the CA, who made such a noteworthy contribution to small boat seamanship? That's the reason some of the other clubs and associations were honoured.

Thee people earned the right of their organisations to wear the blue and I do think they deserve respect as well. It's not just some kind of gratuitous snobbery.

Absolutely, 110% and then some. Couldn't have put it better myself!

 

[[163233]]

That was very dangerous work and is the reason that most of those clubs were granted the privilege of wearing the blue.

I don't think it was, for most of the clubs, aside from service clubs, it's about royal patronage and nothing to do with respect for past servicemen. Generally they pre-date both world wars by a long chalk.

For example, from the Royal Ulster's history online :-

1869

In August this year Queen Victoria was "graciously pleased to approve the Yacht Club taking the title of the Royal Ulster Yacht Club." Since then members have been entitled by Admiralty warrant to fly the Club burgee with defaced blue ensign.

 

[Colvic Watson]

26 pages of heartfelt emotion and churchilian steadfast defence of our nation's brave past and naval heritage.

And all because a flag was blue and not red. If so much can be created by so little, then this country can truly be great again, all we need is for many more sailors to fly blue flags and the resulting upswell in the national umph will send productivity soaring and output to historic highs.

I've put my money where my mouth is and ordered another bluey from eBay, it's free for a £20 donation toward shipping costs to anyone who can promise that they never have been and never will be entitled to fly it.

 

[Tomaret]

My feeling is that if members were bothered, I wouldn't want to be in that club.

.

I share the sentiment, but until I join, how do I know?

 

[NormanS]

Contraction of Richard Head...

Thank you. I live a very sheltered life.

 

[john_morris_uk]

I share the sentiment, but until I join, how do I know?

I know one of them because they were represented at the Boat Show.

I was engaged in conversation by a blazered rep from the club and very quickly into the conversation he explained that they took the burgee and the correct flag etiquette very seriously.

Now as one who has had to perform colours on one of her Majesty's warships, I'm reasonably au fait with tradition and 'doing things properly'.

However this was a yacht club and although I try to fly the correct burgee and wear the right ensign, life's too short for some of the attitude this chap took so I politely made my excuses and walked on.

This has very little to do with my strongly held conviction that UK vessels should wear the correct ensign. I don't much care whether its red or blue, but making some silly point by putting up some sort of 'made up' ensign leaves me gritting my teeth. I'll probably never say or do anything, but people who do such things lose a little respect from me. Its a sort of chavvy yobbish behaviour that is best ignored. IMHO. Perhaps it says rather a lot about the people concerned and their attitude to the UK.

 

[Mad Pad]

I can't believe that a thread on the Blue Ensign (again) can produce so many posts.

Why doesn't someone start a thread on the White one......hold it.......with only those entitled to fly it,posting.

From memory that's ,

1/The Royal Navy

2/The Royal Yacht

3/The Royal Yacht Squadron

Defaced not allowed...yes there are a few

 

[Resolution]

I know one of them because they were represented at the Boat Show.

I was engaged in conversation by a blazered rep from the club and very quickly into the conversation he explained that they took the burgee and the correct flag etiquette very seriously.

Now as one who has had to perform colours on one of her Majesty's warships, I'm reasonably au fait with tradition and 'doing things properly'.

However this was a yacht club and although I try to fly the correct burgee and wear the right ensign, life's too short for some of the attitude this chap took so I politely made my excuses and walked on.

This has very little to do with my strongly held conviction that UK vessels should wear the correct elknsign. I don't much care whether its red or blue, but making some silly point by putting up some sort of 'made up' ensign leaves me gritting my teeth. I'll probably never say or do anything, but people who do such things lose a little respect from me. Its a sort of chavvy yobbish behaviour that is best ignored. IMHO. Perhaps it says rather a lot about the people concerned and their attitude to the UK.

John
My sentiments as well. Sailing is a leisure activity and should be a pleasure. Flag etiquette should add to the enjoyment, and definitely NOT be a serious matter. Three nights ago, as I nipped out to remove my ensign at sunset in a harbour in Turkey, my next door neighbour , who was a German, clapped and said "That is the right way to do these things". We then got into a fascinating conversation and had an excellent evening. It is not just the blue or red ensign that matters.
Peter

 

[dom]

John
My sentiments as well. Sailing is a leisure activity and should be a pleasure. Flag etiquette should add to the enjoyment, and definitely NOT be a serious matter. Three nights ago, as I nipped out to remove my ensign at sunset in a harbour in Turkey, my next door neighbour , who was a German, clapped and said "That is the right way to do these things"....
Peter

....all well and good Pete, but I trust you cut a figure of sartorial sharpness as your silhouette stood firm against the shadow of the setting sun.

However, I digress; dare I enquire as to the evening ritual aboard the German vessel?

 

[prr]

Yup:
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1995/21/section/5

This is the Merchant Shipping Act 1995. The clue is in the title. It dosn't apply to pleasure craft.

 

[Blue Sunray]

I know one of them because they were represented at the Boat Show.

I was engaged in conversation by a blazered rep from the club and very quickly into the conversation he explained that they took the burgee and the correct flag etiquette very seriously.

Now as one who has had to perform colours on one of her Majesty's warships, I'm reasonably au fait with tradition and 'doing things properly'.

However this was a yacht club and although I try to fly the correct burgee and wear the right ensign, life's too short for some of the attitude this chap took so I politely made my excuses and walked on.

This has very little to do with my strongly held conviction that UK vessels should wear the correct ensign. I don't much care whether its red or blue, but making some silly point by putting up some sort of 'made up' ensign leaves me gritting my teeth. I'll probably never say or do anything, but people who do such things lose a little respect from me. Its a sort of chavvy yobbish behaviour that is best ignored. IMHO. Perhaps it says rather a lot about the people concerned and their attitude to the UK.

:encouragement:

 

[Blue Sunray]

This is the Merchant Shipping Act 1995. The clue is in the title. It dosn't apply to pleasure craft.

Balderdash

 

[prr]

Balderdash

For example ?

 

[awol]

For the hard of reading

1 British ships and United Kingdom ships.

(1)A ship is a British ship if—

(a)the ship is registered in the United Kingdom under Part II; or

(b)the ship is, as a Government ship, registered in the United Kingdom in pursuance of an Order in Council under section 308; or

(c)the ship is registered under the law of a relevant British possession; or

(d)the ship is a small ship other than a fishing vessel and—

(i)is not registered under Part II, but

(ii)is wholly owned by qualified owners, and

(iii)is not registered under the law of a country outside the United Kingdom.

(2)For the purposes of subsection (1)(d) above—

“qualified owners” means persons of such description qualified to own British ships as is prescribed by regulations made by the Secretary of State for the purposes of that paragraph; and

“small ship” means a ship less than 24 metres in length (“length” having the same meaning as in the tonnage regulations).

(3)A ship is a “United Kingdom ship” for the purposes of this Act (except section 85 and 144(3)) if the ship is registered in the United Kingdom under Part II (and in Part V “United Kingdom fishing vessel” has a corresponding meaning).

 

[prr]

For the hard of reading

I've just read a bit more & it seems I need a Seaman Discharge Book.....?

 

[Robin]

I know one of them because they were represented at the Boat Show.

I was engaged in conversation by a blazered rep from the club and very quickly into the conversation he explained that they took the burgee and the correct flag etiquette very seriously.

Now as one who has had to perform colours on one of her Majesty's warships, I'm reasonably au fait with tradition and 'doing things properly'.

However this was a yacht club and although I try to fly the correct burgee and wear the right ensign, life's too short for some of the attitude this chap took so I politely made my excuses and walked on.

This has very little to do with my strongly held conviction that UK vessels should wear the correct ensign. I don't much care whether its red or blue, but making some silly point by putting up some sort of 'made up' ensign leaves me gritting my teeth. I'll probably never say or do anything, but people who do such things lose a little respect from me. Its a sort of chavvy yobbish behaviour that is best ignored. IMHO. Perhaps it says rather a lot about the people concerned and their attitude to the UK.

+! and raise you 10!:encouragement:

 

[Colvic Watson]

This has very little to do with my strongly held conviction that UK vessels should wear the correct ensign. I don't much care whether its red or blue, but making some silly point by putting up some sort of 'made up' ensign leaves me gritting my teeth. I'll probably never say or do anything, but people who do such things lose a little respect from me. Its a sort of chavvy yobbish behaviour that is best ignored. IMHO. Perhaps it says rather a lot about the people concerned and their attitude to the UK.

It's adorable that the colour of a flag on a small plastic pleasure tub can be interpreted as a defining statement on the skippers' attitude to the UK. Nothing now will surprise me on this thread, it just keeps giving.

 

[Tomaret]

I know one of them because they were represented at the Boat Show.

I was engaged in conversation by a blazered rep from the club and very quickly into the conversation he explained that they took the burgee and the correct flag etiquette very seriously.

Now as one who has had to perform colours on one of her Majesty's warships, I'm reasonably au fait with tradition and 'doing things properly'.

However this was a yacht club and although I try to fly the correct burgee and wear the right ensign, life's too short for some of the attitude this chap took so I politely made my excuses and walked on.

This has very little to do with my strongly held conviction that UK vessels should wear the correct ensign. I don't much care whether its red or blue, but making some silly point by putting up some sort of 'made up' ensign leaves me gritting my teeth. I'll probably never say or do anything, but people who do such things lose a little respect from me. Its a sort of chavvy yobbish behaviour that is best ignored. IMHO. Perhaps it says rather a lot about the people concerned and their attitude to the UK.

It was at the Boat Show that one took my money and the other my details - I didn't think to ask either about flag etiquette, but both offer attractive sailing related activities and reasonably priced accommodation in London. The latter appeals because we live close enough to London to travel up for the theatre, but far enough away for the train journey home to take the edge off the evening. Having somewhere in town to stay that won't break the bank (soon to be reduced to a Company pension which, whilst in many respects generous, won't stretch to the Ritz every time) has appeal. Whether it's strong enough to incite me to wear a blue ensign to avoid causing offence to the club but risk the increased and critical assessment of many forumites remains to be seen. I suppose I'll have to monitor the forum to see how long it takes for a thread bemoaning the antics of a skipper of a yacht wearing a pristine blue ensign in Portsmouth Harbour to appear. However, I think I have to be a member for a period of time before I am eligible to apply for a permit, by which point I may be tired of them or them of me.

As to flag etiquette of others more generally, I prefer to live and let live. I'm either too occupied with my own boat, or too relaxed when she is "in the groove" to spend time in judgement of others based on the colours they fly. I rely on how they store their fenders for that!